Buy Tractor And Mower or Skidsteer and Mulch Head?

[cbturf]

I have owned both an ASV RC-100 and the Fecon FTX-140 and two skid steer machines will not keep up with one FTX-140. Robbie I know your head is more efficient than a carbide type head but he mentioned speed and reliability. I had some issues with reliability for a while but it was more because of the newness of the machine, not that the machine could not handle the work. Since Fecon installed all of the updates on my 140 all I have done is put fuel and grease in it. daily maintenance chores are grease and clean out the radiator screens and then once a week wash out your coolers. Last Monday I ran for 10 hours and only stopped two times to consult with the landowner and get a splash of fuel. The landowner even asked me how I stay in there so long without taking the necessary pit stops. Daily operating cost is also something to think about, I do not remember for sure but I would think that two skid steers running in a mulching job would burn more fuel than one FTX-140. Your point about having a skid steer to do other chores around the plantation is a good one but you can pick up a good low hour bobcat for $10k. You will enentually have some down time and two machines do keep you going but you need to consider the amount of down time and production while you are up. Even if you are only producing the same rate as two of the skid steers I think that you will have more up time with the purpose built machine than the two skid machines combined.

My theory is that you will produce more for less with one dedicated mulching machine than you will get two skid steer machines. Not to mention that there are a few used Fecons showing up out there that you can pick up for peanuts (well about $130k peanuts).

Robbie you know I love ya man and I still plan to get one of your heads on an excavator eventually but in the case of 6,000 acres you need a bigger machine that is built to do this work for its entire lifetime. In short I have no animocity towards the head just the carrier, skid steers will not "cut it" day in and day out for 6,000 acres.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

Hey CB that is the great thing about this site. You get real world results from those of us who run them. I have more experience with skid and you with the 140 size machine.

I get to run most of the new skids and they are making improvements.

But now Jason will now whats out there and can arrange demos to see what fits his needs best.

 

[Amer Pine Straw]

Other than being able to choose from a larger number of skidsteers, what would be the advantage of a low flow hydraulic system on a mulch head?

 

[cbturf]

Less heat, high flow means high heat. I am not sure if low flow skid steers have the same coolers as high flow but if they do you would not run near as hot.

 

[Amer Pine Straw]

I read somewhere in one of these threads about the 2 different types of hydraulics on the various heads. One was a piston or cylinder type which everyone agreed was better. I forget the other type. Its on the mulch head is what I'm referring too. Would a low flow system be able to run this type of design too?

My row spacing is 8x8 ft. I sure would like to be able to zig zag through there and take out the stuff in the rows. My product is premium and I can't have weed seeds or anything like that contaminating anything. I would like to NOT send a crew in to manually clean along the rows. Also, how low is acceptable to go with one of these heads near the ground and is it different for the dedicated vs. the skidsteer setup. Stumps and stems will mess up my baling equipment if they're left too high.

Another question is the footprint that I will leave. The pine stands will already have a herbicide machine, fertilizer machine , rake, tractor and baler, wagon and tractor to get the wagon running over the soil. Compaction can become an issue if you over do it in this type of sandy loamy w/clay subsoil. The pines don't react well is all.

How heavy is the dedicated machine and over what area is the weight dispersed?

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

The advantages of a low flow would be tractor price and size. Plus we wouldn't make a head that was ineffecient or poorly designed.

You can cut material down to ground level or lower if needed. But just to ground level is better on the ground and your blades/teeth.

Now the other needs you indicate favor a skid steer. A low flow tractor and head would be about 6-6.5' wide. It would also be very agile. The weight of a 140 is about 15k, a high flow skid can get to 12-13K itself. A low flow tractor and head would be under 8K. It would have the lightest footprint and less ground disturbance. Skid steers with rubber tracks would do well. The Rayco/Fecon and Supertrak have steel tracks will turn the ground abit. You could learn to minimize this some but at the expense of manuverability.

I should be in the Fl. panhandle soon and I can stop by and look at the terrian and size material to be cut. Then I would recommend demos to see how the different tractor perform at your place.

 

[QwikDraw]

http://www.fecon.com/media-literature/FTX140.pdf

Carbided type head can get below the surface 3 to 4 inches, a cutting type head (Denis Cimaf) would be flush with the ground or slightly below.

Skid steer would be slightly lighter foot print, under 5lbs per square inch. The Fecon 140 would be around 5.5lbs per square inch.

 

[cbturf]

ASV gets cute with the whole ground pressure thing. If you look at the PT-100 spec page it gives you the operating weight with a bucket then the ground pressure with a bucket. When you add the mulching head your ground pressure will go up significantly.

Operating weight with bucket: 11,425 lb. / 5184 kg.
Shipping weight, w/out bucket: 10,400 lb. / 4717 kg.
Ground pressure @ operating weight: 4.37 psi / 30.1 kPa
Ground pressure @ shipping weight: 3.9 psi / 26.9 kPa

Actual ground pressure in mulching form would be closer to (11425-300+2250)/(18*72.5*2)=5.12psi

The FTX-140 has the ground pressure as 5.4 psi with the BH-85. The tracks are longer and that is why the impact as almost as low. My 140 has a 6 foot cutting width and once you get good on it you can grind on any surface without ever touching it or you can tip the head and mulch into the top layer of soil. Selective clearing is a piece of cake too. I have heard it said that the 140 is not good at selective clearing. I have done work for two people on this site and they will both tell you that I can leave any tree you choose. On the job in Alabama I was able to use the head to pull vines out of a 1" (tiny) dogwood tree and leave the tree itself untouched. This guy made me work at it but I did not harm a single one of his save trees and this place was THICK.

 

[Amer Pine Straw]

This all sounds great so far. Thanks to all of you for the good information.

Another question would be the life expectancy of a head and a machine just ballpark. I realize that the density and type/size of material in each acre plus maintenance and operator skills all are part of the equation, but what are some people getting as far as useful life with this equipment, both dedicated and regular skid steer.

I have an almost infinite number of acres north of Daytona to develop at some point as well. Will any of this stuff make it that long?

What type of machine has the best ground clearance? The soil at the Daytona site is sandy, old field and sorta humped up between the rows so equipment could get hung up if it had low ground clearance in some areas.

 

[Mowermoney]

I'm going to jump in here with my 2 cents worth. I do a lot of plantation mowing with both my carbide mulchers and my Ambusher DL-66 tree cutter. If this is a typical plantation with normal (8 or 10') a skid steer is the only machine that will do the job without destroying the pines. I have found that I can get a lot better production by using both types of machines in tandem. In plantations where the material is less than 4" at the ground I can mow 6 to 10 acres per 8 hour day (6.5-7) operating hours with the Ambusher. It can also fell ocasional 8" stuff. When a finer gring is required. I follow up with my 48" FAE carbide mulcher. You can get similar production from the carbide mulcher if you don't spend a lot of time backing up and mulching the material.

I don't have any experience with tractors in plantations, but I would think you would destroy a lot of equipment before you finished 6000 acres.

Hydro-ax sells a skidder mounted rotary mower that would hold up to do the job, but it would tear a lot of bark off the pines because of it's width.

The best way to decide is to hire a contractor with several types of machines and do a few test plots and figure the cost per acre for each type.