Buying a new baler: JD or Vermeer? Your input please.

[Bigfoot62]

I've thrown the last dollar at my JD 457. It's been a good baler, but I'm ready for a new one. It's not the baler's problem, but I blew a hydraulic packing today and still have 35 acres ready to bale. I'll get it fixed tomorrow and be back in the field, but I'd sure like to have a new baler, ready to go!
I bale about 500 rolls per year on my own farm. Most of the hay I produce is sold.
I want a 4x5 twine baler. I use sisal twine exclusively. (don't like net wrap, and my hay customers don't either)

Torn between the green and yellow. Would like to stay with JD, but don't know if it's worth the extra $$$. (Approx. $8K more for 459 than 504N, and approx. $5K more for 459E than 5420 Rebel, similarly equipped)
Nearest JD dealers are 55 and 75 miles away. Nearest Vermeer dealers are 19, 45, 50, and 55 miles away. (yellow is BIG around here)
Got a price on a new Vermeer 5420 Rebel, twine only, for a little over $20k. It has a simple monitor, hay saver wheels and bale ramps It's in stock and I can get it tomorrow.

Here's some of my questions:
Should I pull the trigger on the Rebel, or hold out for a 504N? (the dealer with the Rebel doesn't have a 504N in stock, neither does another dealer that I've already called)
That leads to another question, are the JD E series and the Rebels OK for what I'm doing, or will I regret not buying the "premium" baler? Is there that much difference, or is it mainly cosmetic and sheet metal?
Am I really going to miss my MegaWide pickup, or will the hay saver wheels do the same thing?

I'm sure I'll think of other questions as the discussion grows.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Already thought of something else.

The JD dealer will take the 457 on trade. Offered me $8K. Is that fair, or could I reasonably expect to get more out of it by hauling it to a tractor and equipment auction. (Idabel, OK is about a 5 hour drive from here)

 

[whis]

you couldn't give me a yellow one.

 

[AGRIMAN]

My 467 is a good baler and still in good condition. It has never gave any real problems, but it doesn't have net wrap. Toward the middle of last season I ran across a good deal on a used 4x6 New Holland baler with net wrap (owner past away).

I bought the baler mainly for the net wrap, but soon discovered it's a better baler. The pick up feeds better and does a cleaner job than the mega wide. We usally bale as fast as ground conditions will allow and even at the higher speeds it feeds good. I also like the bale quality better.

Deere builds a good balers and there are some things I still like better about about the Deere, but the NH baler is no joke.

I have never owned a Vermeer and most of my experience with them has been on the older models and I wasn't impressed. Perhaps the newer ones are better, but the bale quality on the older models was bad.

I have a neighbor that bought one of the new E series JD balers (4x5 I think). He is not really thrilled with it so far.
Part of the problem is he bought the monitor and after he couldn't get the bale gauges to work he called the dealer and was surprised to learn that the E series baler don't come with the sensors or wiring harness standard.

He can add the parts to make them work, but it's going to cost him around $1,400.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I have no experience with Vermeer or Deere balers. Around here everything is red and New Holland. My dad sold them for over 25 years

The Vermeer has the price point. Deere is Deere. The king. You are a Deere guy. Go green. You won't be happy with the Vermeer.

 

[Tx Jim]

Bigfoot62
How many bales has your 457 baled? I think $8K trade in for your 457 is realistic. My 1st JD 467 had 30,000 bales on monitor when I traded it for present 467 to get netwrap & this one has 23,000+ bales on it. I have no intention of trading for another baler. The bales I see locally that are baled by a NH rd baler have the "big star shape" on their sides which translates to very soft core which I think would indicate a lighter weight. I read about having to replace sledge rollers & brgs in NH rd balers which doesn't look cheap or fun. IMHO the extra weight of a comparable Vermeer baler over a JD would represent pulling a anchor through the field with more ground compaction especially in damp soil conditions.

 

[jdtractor]

I've owned both Deere and Vermeer.... I wouldn't own a New Holland... you couldn't give me 1. Vermeer is good.. the baler I'm now using is Deere this is my second. I will stay with Deere...IMO u r a Deere man .. I would say u won't be happy with a Vermeer..

 

[RPW]

I've got a Vermeer 5400 rebel and love it. I was in a similar situation with my 605C. Had been using it for a few years and have rebuit it quite a bit but had It with the requirement of the hay needing to be just right to bale. I can run the hay into it as fast as I can and it takes it all. As my tractor is only about 45 pto horsepower it was a no brainer.

 

[AGRIMAN]

I use sisal twine exclusively. (don't like net wrap, and my hay customers don't either).

I understand that some folks don't like net wrap and I'm sure your reason are valid, but for me the time saved baling is more than enough justification for me.

Our total cycle time from applying the brakes thru closing the tailgate and starting off is 25 sec. That adds up at the end of a long day.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Bigfoot62
How many bales has your 457 baled? I think $8K trade in for your 457 is realistic. My 1st JD 467 had 30,000 bales on monitor when I traded it for present 467 to get netwrap & this one has 23,000+ bales on it. I have no intention of trading for another baler. The bales I see locally that are baled by a NH rd baler have the "big star shape" on their sides which translates to very soft core which I think would indicate a lighter weight. I read about having to replace sledge rollers & brgs in NH rd balers which doesn't look cheap or fun. IMHO the extra weight of a comparable Vermeer baler over a JD would represent pulling a anchor through the field with more ground compaction especially in damp soil conditions.

I like the JD balers and there's not a lot of bad things you can say about them. Like all the others they have some faults but not many.

Honestly, I don't see any difference in core density of the bales baled with our JD verses the NH. What I have noticed is a difference in overhaul density of the bales. The NH is tighter and the bales stay round.

I do agree with you that there's some bears and drive gears on the NH balers that wouldn't be fun or cheap to replace.

As I said, what has impressed me the most about the NH baler is the way it picks up clean and feeds smooth in thick hay at higher speeds. This afternoon we were trying to stay ahead of some late afternoon thunderstorms. We were in good hay averaging 4 to 5 4x6 bales to the acre. We were baling around 8 miles and hour which averaged out to be around one acre every 8 minutes.

As good as I like my 467, it wouldn't had done it.

 

[Tx Jim]

Agriman
My ground isn't smooth enough to run much over 6 mph but my nephew which lives 30 miles south of me stated he regularly bales at 10 mph putting out 50 4x5.5 bales per hr with his 468.

 

[jdtractor]

Well I don't know how old the bakers you are talking about... but where I'm from the N H bales don't compare to Deere as far as density. I've seen and baled beside NH and there is no comparison.. as far as how fast I average 6 mph baling 4x5 bales. My ground also is rough in spots. I also bake hillside meadows which is slower approximately 3-4 mph.

 

[powerscol]

Have you considered Hesston / MF They seem to be used around here. I was looking at one of their 1700 series at the local Agg show last month. Lots of options of how to configure it.

 

[Texasmark]

Green is 95% of what you see around here. Must be a reason as most of the colors are represented with nearby dealers. Green has been my color for over 20 years, but the pulling tractor is Red, and Not Case IH.

 

[merlynr]

I bought a Vermeer rebel this spring because my tractor is 41pto hp and the baler only req 40hp. I've had some trouble operating it but i'm still learning. It's the basic model and the twine wrapping marks didn't line up and so I ran twine off the end at the cut side. I've made my own marks now even though the adjustments are in spec. The baler works fine otherwise and the only extra I have is bale kicker

 

[Bigfoot62]

Bigfoot62
How many bales has your 457 baled? I think $8K trade in for your 457 is realistic. My 1st JD 467 had 30,000 bales on monitor when I traded it for present 467 to get netwrap & this one has 23,000+ bales on it. I have no intention of trading for another baler. The bales I see locally that are baled by a NH rd baler have the "big star shape" on their sides which translates to very soft core which I think would indicate a lighter weight. I read about having to replace sledge rollers & brgs in NH rd balers which doesn't look cheap or fun. IMHO the extra weight of a comparable Vermeer baler over a JD would represent pulling a anchor through the field with more ground compaction especially in damp soil conditions.

Jim,
The 457 has 8,000 bales on it. (at least that's what the monitor shows)
Your comment on the weight confuses me. Fully equipped, both balers weigh around 5300-5400#, according to the specs on the respective websites.

I'm done throwing money at this baler. In the past two seasons, I've replaced the drive shaft. ($1200 direct from Weasler, JD wanted twice that much) I've replaced all 6 belts. ($400 for the first one from JD, $1100 for the other 5 from BT Belting) I've built up the spirals on the front roller. (just a handful of welding rods - thanks to Tx Jim for the how-to) I've added two additional tines to the compressor. ($130 from JD) Now, the JD baler mechanics are telling me that I need to add a Silage Kit, (about $2k) and rebuild the pickup. (who knows how much that would cost) And, there's no guarantee that it would stop the hay from running up the belts and wrapping around the rollers.

The feeding problem is driving me nuts! Something that I've found to be interesting, and terribly frustrating at the same time, is that I have to creep along at about 2mph or less to get the roll started. Once I have about 2-2.5' in the core, I can kick it on up and bale at 5 or 6mph. No problem. I rolled 200 bales like that week before last. I don't intend to do it again.

I decided to cut my losses and carry it to the big tractor auction in Idabel, OK.

 

[Bigfoot62]

To those who have suggested a NH or Hesston, there is no dealer support for those near me. Period. And, for that reason alone, I won't consider one.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Found out a lot since the original post.

The current model Vermeer is a 504R. (the 504N is no longer in production)
The 504R and the JD 459 both have a 60" pickup. They both use hydraulic tension to form the bale. And both have a "compressor" roller in front of the pickup reel to mash down the windrow and help prevent hay from running up the belts. Last week, I ordered a new 504R. Two big reasons: 1. The Vermeer is almost $6k less than the JD. ($25k for yellow, $31k for green) 2. The Vermeer is supposed to be in by the end of this week. My JD dealer said that if I ordered a new 459, (have to order to get it without net wrap) I probably wouldn't get it until sometime next year.
Thanks for all the replies.

I'll post the results of the new baler after I've used it.

 

[Tx Jim]

Bigfoot62
I wish you the best of luck with your new Vermeer baler. The differences in weight between JD & Vermeer I was referring to was on the 4X6 models. Vermeer 604N 7960#s VS JD 469 5725#s. I have very little experience with the JD 4X5 rd balers. As I've previously stated my 467 very rarely runs Coastal up the frt belts & it's baled over 24,000 bales.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Bigfoot62
I wish you the best of luck with your new Vermeer baler. The differences in weight between JD & Vermeer I was referring to was on the 4X6 models. Vermeer 604N 7960#s VS JD 469 5725#s. I have very little experience with the JD 4X5 rd balers. As I've previously stated my 467 very rarely runs Coastal up the frt belts & it's baled over 24,000 bales.

Jim,
Thanks for all your help. My 457 was "tired" and I was tired of messing with it.
And, nothing is forever. If the Vermeer doesn't suit me, I can always go back to green.