Buying/Pricing

[northcreek2624]

Dazed,Have you considered a Kioti? I've always been a IH guy,but since nothing is made in the US anyway I ditched my brand loyalty and went for the best tractor for my $$.
In my case it was a DK40 Kioti and I absolutely love it.
Don't listen to the dealer retoric,the best tractor is always the one they're selling now.
Check out the Kioti message board and listen to what the owners have to say.
Oh,and that resale thing is as overated now as it was when my buddy bought one of the first Kubotas.
My 2cents.......Mike

 

[Buster57]

I think you will be very happy with any of the big 3-NH, JD or Kubota. I own JD and Kubota and plan to buy a NH one day as well. I would not go with an off brand.

My Kubota is an L3010 with a HD bucket that a rock yard would want! I love using the HD bucket almost as much as my Land Pride mower deck. Great combo!

Unfortunately, I have heard war stories about backhoes. The bad experiences are for occasional users who face high insurance costs or really expensive equipment that is rarely used. My uneducated technical advice is to rent the backhoe. Case 580c is a good worker. Costs as much as a Mercedes but great to rent!


Before you buy your tractor, HOW GOOD IS THE DEALER? How does your foot fit the gas pedal/ How well does your butt fit the seat? Try to really know the unit before you buy. Half the fun is studying the equipment. The equipment you are looking at is some of the finest equipment in the world!

Go to the dealer armed with knowledge and you will be a better consumer. Check out all the specs on the WEB and read as much on TBN as you can handle, and you will learn huge amounts of information. Some tips may be useful, irrelevant or idiotic (“carry a weapon on your tractor”) in nature. Fortunately, most of the information can be quite helpful before, during or after your purchase.

Have fun-
Buster

 

[nathanelmo]

Dazed, deffinetly read this twice before you make your decision. RE: HST vs Gear. For the novice user forget loader efficiency, forget comfort, forget power loss, and forget the lower up front cost. Think only of safety for you, your tractor, and your surroundings. Hydros are the only choice. They allow immediate, precise response and control when stopping, backing up, manuvering out of potential roll-over situations, manuvering near obsticles (people, houses, cars), turning on slopes, etc.. They allow the operator to focus on other tractor and implement functions and reduce wear on clutch, brakes and driveline components. Do not listen to any argument against HST for your intended use. Buy blue, orange, or green. Don't buy Chinese (no hydro). I bought a KUB L 3010 from Emerich in Charlton, NY and it was priced competitively with blue and green gear drives. Foldable ROPS depends on height of garage. L3410 is same except for motor configuration (bore, stroke, injector popping pressure). L3710 is a little larger machine all around. Buy the backhoe if you can afford it; you'll use it more than you think and resale is good on that implement. Good luck in your decision.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

nathanelmo - It's funny you should mention Emerich...I live in Halfmoon, and my quest began at the Saratoga County Fair 2 years ago when I sat on a Kubota 3010 for $9995.00. I have seen in several posts that they are very reasonable. How do you find them as far as dealer support, knowlegable, etc.? You obvoiusly know about Clifton Park Lawn & Leisure, Capital Tractor and Abele. Let me know if you can spare any "localized info" either through this baord or by email @ skipbarberman@hotmail.com Thanks - Sean

 

[tdenny]

Dazed,

I've got to agree with the guys who are telling you that the Hydro is the way to go. I was going to purchase a gear drive tractor and test drove many of them. They were fine and would have certainly gotten the job done more than adequately. I ended up with a hydro by sheer luck. There is really no comparison. The power loss is not an issue at all other than the fact that you can usually hear your hyd. pump working while you are in motion. (At least on mine).

Get the Hydro - you will NEVER regret it. If a dealer told you that you wouldn't want one then I am assuming that he/she has some sort of alterior motive. No hydros in stock or something like that.

You can search TBN and find tons of information about this debate (Hyd vs. Non-Hyd) but the bottom line is the Hydro is easier to use period. Good luck. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

I disagree. I have used tractors all my life and the difference in a hydro and gear is negligible once you know how to drive a tractor. I can do just as much work, just as fast, and just as safe as anyone that has a hyrdro tractor. Many things you can get done faster and do a better job with a gear drive tractor as well. Gear drive is much better for doing things like spraying, planting, plowing, discing, etc. There is absolutely no difference at all in safety, that's just plain hogwash, unless you really don't know what you are doing and then it doesn't matter if you have a gear or a hydro. If you're just a weekend buff and want just want a tractor for yard chores then sure a hydro is fine. However if you really want the benefits of a tractor and less hassle in the end then your dealer was right that a gear drive tractor is just as good. If you go JD get the power reverser and you will never regret not having a hydro.

 

[cstocks]

<font color=blue>I will need to do some trenching, lots of landscaping and a lot of mowing.</font color=blue>

Seems to me that the hydro would be the way to go based on what you are saying. My first and only other tractor before my TC33D was a small, gear shift Massey Ferguson and it was a royal pain in the butt. My primary use was/is mowing and loader work and even though the M.F. did not have a loader, clutching and shifting gears all the time while mowing slowed down the mowing process considerably.

You can't beat the hydrostatic transmission if your mowing involves backing underneath trees and navigating around obstacles. I keep one hand on the wheel and the other on the 3 pt. controller and don't have to mess with all the shifting from forward to reverse.

Same goes for loader work. The only shifting I do when using the loader is when I shift into a lower range to fill the loader and then into a higher range if I have any distance to cover before dumping the load.

Chris

 

[tdenny]

Richard,

Agreed on the safety issue that the Hyd and non-Hyd are equally as safe or non-safe /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif depending on your perspective.

<font color=blue>"I can do just as much work, just as fast, and just as safe as anyone that has a hyrdro tractor."</font color=blue>

I won't argue that you could use your gear drive tractor as fast as me on my hydro since you were practically born on one, but I might argue that you were by far the exception rather than the rule.

<font color=blue>"Many things you can get done faster and do a better job with a gear drive tractor as well."</font color=blue>

I'm wondering how you could possibly do it faster with a gear drive tractor? I'll give you equally as fast but faster, how? /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

My point is really that someone who is not a tractor expert (weekend warrior) but wants to do alot of landscaping, loader work etc, would really be more well suited with a hydro.

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>There is absolutely no difference at all in safety, that's just plain hogwash, unless you really don't know what you are doing and then it doesn't matter if you have a gear or a hydro.</font color=blue>

Hmm, that's coming on pretty strong, and I'll concede that you have a lot more experience and knowledge than most of us (myself included) with tractors, but I'm just as convinced that you're wrong this time as you are that you're right./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[JATO_RaT]

Sorry Richard, I respectfully disagree. There is a huge difference in safety. My 1000+ hours of experience not only tells me so, I can easily prove it. Mowing is an easy and perfect example. Remember folks, I own 2 tractors, a gear driven and a hydro. I can tell you that mowing with my 84" mower while backing it down (steep) almost into my pond is so much safer with hydro then on my gear drive, there really is no comparision. No brakes needed on the hydro, the degree to which I can back it in can be as slow as I desire and when it starts wanting to go completely in, simply releasing the hydro stops it and with ALL 4 WHEELS locked in, not just the rear brakes as all compacts are set up. (Once the clutch goes in on a 4WD gear drive, the front wheels are free to do as they wish until the clutch is released) No brakes, no clutch and no shifting. To get out I simply depress the forward pedal. It is not even close to being that easy with ANY gear tractor period. I have many, many of hours on gears both shuttle type and full manual, I know the limitations of them and this is a perfect example. I would not let many folks I know do this on my International, anyone can do it on my hydro.

You simply cannot do loader work with a gear as fast as I can with a hydro. I believe your experience with hydro would be very limited if any at all to make that statement. I use both type drives for loader work and there is NO COMPARISION, You are quite correct though about discing, plowing, maybe spraying but I question that as there is very little load for spraying and the degree of hydro slip would be almost nil. Plowing and discing where the demands for maximum pull are required will have to be in favor of gears. Now, how many folks out there are buying compacts to disc and plow mass areas? My guess is very few. For small plots, you can get by with hydro for discing and plowing. For large areas, I suggest you skip the compacts altogether.

JD's Power Reverser is no different then Kubota and New Hollands shuttle shift. I use one almost everyday. I most definitely would regret getting a Power Reverser or hydraulic shuttle shift over a hydro, sorry to so strongly disagree as we have in the past, but I want folks to be armed with what I feel to be the correct facts about hydrostatic drive. Remember, hydrostatics have at least 2 ranges and typically 3. When in low, the amount of "slippage" if it exists is undetectable. I'm not advocating folks only buy hydrostatic drive, but I do want them to know the facts. If a bulk of what you do is mowing on slopes and loader work, its going to be VERY tough to outperform a hydrostatic drive. Rat...

 

[Hawkflyer]

I would have to agree with the majority on this one. I have used both gear and Hydro tractors, and my vote goes to hydro for the uses described. Now if I was spraying and had to regulate the system, or as you guys mentioned "plowing Kansas", a gear drive might be just the ticket. As for gears being faster, maybe... eisier... NO WAY... less effort ... impossible. There are advantages to both drive systems, but there are disadvantages as well. In this case Hydro is the best bet.

 

[cowboydoc]

Ok remember these are my opinions guys. Rat I have driven alot of hydros and except for a lawnmower you couldn't give me a hydro over a gear tractor. I wish you were closer or if you're ever in my area come on over. The local dealer would let me try out a hydro any day of the week. I have no doubt that I could match you in amount of work done. I've proved it with other guys. And maybe you're a better driver than me and would toast me so who knows.

As far as safety goes show me one stat that shows that a hydro is any safer than a gear driven tractor. I have never seen one so we'll just agree to disagree there. Bird I have the utmost respect for you and I just don't see how if you operate a tractor in a safe way that you aren't just as safe with a gear driven tractor. Safety is safety regardless if it's a hydro or it's a gear tractor. I guess it's kind of like saying an automatic car is safer than a manual. I don't think that holds any water so how does it hold water with a tractor? If you get hurt or cause damage with a gear tractor you more than likely would have caused the same damage with a hydro. I don't think once you know how to drive a tractor that there is any comparison there. And yes I have driven both alot. I've worked on alot of farms, ranches, and for a landscaper growing up and in college in addition to my family's ranch and my own.

In all due respect you guys think I'm wrong and that's fine. I'm just coming at it from the other side of the fence. I like gear tractors, I know I can do just as much work with a gear or hst, and for alot of things they are preferable to an hst. The only reason for the post was to show the other side of the fence. If you drive a gear tractor for a long period of time you aren't going to think an hst is that big of a deal in my humble opinion. You know 99% of what is written on here is merely a guys opinion on what works for him. Most of you think that hst is the way to go but I'd be willing to bet if this forum were made up more of real farmers you'd see a different opinion on hst vs. gear. It all comes down to your perspective. Obviously you guys think it is a difference but from my 30 years of driving every kind of tractor, combine, and farm machinery I don't think it does.

 

[cowboydoc]

TD,
What I meant by faster is that if you are plowing a field, discing, mowing hay, baling, spraying, etc. where a constant speed is important it's impossible to do a good job with an hst. Also it's hard to keep a constant speed with an hst even with the cruise control. Not very many hst's have constant speed built into them like a gear tractor does. You don't have the speed up and slow down like you do with an hst. You aren't doing more or less over a given piece of ground and have to go back and do it over, etc. Now if you're talking loader work, mowing, etc. then yes you aren't going to be any faster but I don't think once you know how to operate a tractor you will be much slower either.

 

[Kodiak]

HEY!: /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Can we get back to the original problem of helping Mr. Dazed, sort out some of his confusion
(no pun intended). Instead of hashing out another war on the gear versus hydro isuue. If you want to get into that just do a search. Its been brought up over and over again. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>these are my opinions</font color=blue>

And so are ours; just opinions based on our experiences.

<font color=blue>As far as safety goes</font color=blue>

I think Rat has pretty well described reasons I'm convinced the HST is safer for the majority of operators. Now that's not to say a geared tractor isn't safe, but how many people have let one roll a little bit when they depressed the clutch, or have had a wet foot slip off the clutch pedal and the tractor jump? Wide open spaces, no problem, but in tight quarters, maybe critical. I figure emergency stops on tractors are not frequent, but if it should become necessary, which is faster? Just letting up with your right foot on the HST pedal (don't even have to pick up the foot)? Or moving both feet to the brake and clutch pedals (I know - you don't have to get the clutch, too, but instinct will make you try, I'll bet).

<font color=blue>kind of like saying an automatic car is safer than a manual</font color=blue>

I agree. On the wide open road, manual is great, but in heavy traffic haven't you ever been behind someone who stalled their engine with a manual transmission?

Folks like you and me learned to drive manual transmissions, whether in tractors, cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc. So yes, I feel safe enough with a manual transmission on anything, and in some cases for some uses, actually prefer a manual transmission, but overall I still think the HST is safer, even for us.

<font color=blue>If you get hurt or cause damage with a gear tractor you more than likely would have caused the same damage with a hydro</font color=blue>

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I think when my brother-in-law's foot slipped off the clutch and he rammed his rotary cutter through the back wall of his shed, that would have happened if he'd had an HST./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

<font color=blue>if this forum were made up more of real farmers you'd see a different opinion on hst vs. gear</font color=blue>

I agree. They spend more time on bigger parcels of land, more room, fewer changes of direction, need to have a constant speed for long periods of time in many cases, and most importantly, HST just isn't available in most of the bigger tractors. But how many would prefer a geared tractor to PowerShift? The ones I know prefer the PowerShift (if they can afford it) and that's getting closer to an automatic.

Incidentally, in high speed pursuits on the streets of Dallas, I preferred the manual transmission as long as I had a partner to handle the radio - we didn't have hands free mikes in those days./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But when we were baling hay, that's another matter. I would have preferred an HST. If you're cutting and baling a nice even hayfield, then a constant speed is what you want, but we cut and baled hay for a lot of folks who had some pretty sorry native grasses, fields that had been unattended for years, etc. Some places grass thick enough to go slower, some places thin enough to go faster; HST sure would have been nice, because I was changing gears more frequently than most folks would doing hay work.

By the way, when you stop when your round baler is ready to wrap and dump a bale, do you shift into neutral and let out on the clutch, or sit there with your foot on the clutch while it ties and dumps?

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color=blue>...The Kubota seems to be the most powerful all around...</font color=blue>

What is the definition of "most powerful"?

A 20hp tractor will mow your lawn as would a 50hp... and the lawn will look the same when you got done... (probably better... you won't see any ruts.../w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif)

That same 20hp tractor will spin that posthole digger @ 540rpm's as will the 50hp...

So, I'm wondering where the 30hp tractor came from...? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Bird,
I agree with all you've said from your point of view. I still stand by my opinions from my point of view. The only thing I don't see at all is the safety issue. I still say that it's not an issue between driving an hst and a geared tractor. Tractor safety is tractor safety. I wonder if there is some data on this issue.

With regard to powershift that's another story all together. Yes I agree with you I'd take a powershift any day of the week. Still driving a geared tractor though.

I won't say that the hst isn't right just that a gear tractor isn't wrong either. For the extra $2k or better for an hst a guy that's on a budget or is making a decision between a bigger tractor, other equipment, etc. a geared tractor shouldn't be eliminated as a possibility. Some of us still prefer manuals and like you said there are places even you would prefer a manual. I don't think that a person should be "scared" away from a geared tractor. It's a matter of opinion. I like shifting and can work gears and the pedals just as fast as a person can work an hst. Yes I may have more experience but it doesn't mean a person can't become very adept at learning on one either. We can banter all we want about each other's point of view with regard to the issue and I will still take my gear tractor and you will still take your hst. I agree here to just let the debate between the two go.

With regard to the round bale issue I shift it into neutral, let my bale go and head on. My tractor for the round baler is a quickshift so it's not that big of a deal.

Just so that it doesn't get debated I'm also talking about the synchro shift transmission. No I would not even want to have a tractor that wasn't synchro shift. With synchro shift though it's just as easy as driving a car.

 

[Kodiak]

Richard:
Thankyou for being the sensible one to agree to end your part of this over zealous debate.

Now if everyone will go back and read the first post of this thread. We can all get together and sensibly help Mr. Dazed with his questions.

There, thats it, now everybody pat each other on the back. Somebody pass out the frosty cold ones. After all we are supposed to be freindly here.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Its OK Russ, things are fine and going to be OK, Mr Dazed is getting lots of free advice and a mulititude of opinions. OK, so maybe the topic moves around, I don't care, free and open debate. Don't moderate, participate!

 

[Boondox]

What...we're supposed to remain on topic? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Pete