I've been following the BX22 and now BX23 discussions but haven't heard much about the unique way that Kubota quick attaches the backhoe to the frame. I'm used to seeing a full subframe attached backhoe and was curious if BX22 owners that work out their backhoes on a regular basis can see any wear on the mounting areas of the hoe or the tractor.
BX22/23 backhoe attachment - rugged?
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theboman
Veteran Member
I don't believe they are designed for a workout. These are estate machines and not industrial machines.
If I'd ever want to purschase a pure BH/FEL combo designed for a workout I'd go with a Terramite. Basically a 20-25hp hydraulic pump on wheels. I've seen them do amazing things and they will out work any compact/subcompact of similiar size. They are mighty.
I don't own one. Work for them. Just a fan.
If I'd ever want to purschase a pure BH/FEL combo designed for a workout I'd go with a Terramite. Basically a 20-25hp hydraulic pump on wheels. I've seen them do amazing things and they will out work any compact/subcompact of similiar size. They are mighty.
I don't own one. Work for them. Just a fan.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
We sell them as fast as they come in and I have yet to see one have a problem with the mount. The tractor is specificly engineered to handle that backhoe. Thats the only difference between it and the BX2230.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Before somebody takes me wrong, I am in no way knocking a BX22/23, just pointing out that it's not designed for continued rugged use. It's not an industrial piece of equipment. )</font>
So the Kubota has designed a tractor that, in its design, is not utilized for continued rugged use? Well, define rugged use and maybe I would comment more. Never-the- less, it is not an industrial piece of equipment? Hm, well define industrial and again……..Also de fine continued use. Is it 4 hours per day with dirt or 8 hours per day with rock…etc
It was not deigned to stay up with “earthmovers” if that is what you mean; however, neither are most farm equipment.
I do not know what you are comparing it to.
So the Kubota has designed a tractor that, in its design, is not utilized for continued rugged use? Well, define rugged use and maybe I would comment more. Never-the- less, it is not an industrial piece of equipment? Hm, well define industrial and again……..Also de fine continued use. Is it 4 hours per day with dirt or 8 hours per day with rock…etc
It was not deigned to stay up with “earthmovers” if that is what you mean; however, neither are most farm equipment.
I do not know what you are comparing it to.
Fruitacres
New member
In reality the "unique" way the backhoe attaches is the same as the B21TLB, L35 and L48 as well as very similar to Bradco and other quick removal backhoes. When it is on it is on tight! Because it is closer to the tractor our sales experience with them is that they will out perform the B4672 hoe on a B2410 which is rated for more digging force. Also you can't mow or blow snow with a Terramite.
John Pero
Fruit Acres Tractor johnpero@velocity.net
John Pero
Fruit Acres Tractor johnpero@velocity.net
theboman
Veteran Member
4 hours a day digging with a BX, a no no. It's not designed for that type of wear and tear. It's an estate tractor designed for landscaping projects, mowing grass, gardening etc.
Industrial. Heavy duty everything especially frame, hydraulic arms, pumps etc.
I'd hate to see somebody shuck out $15,000 and destroy it.
I'm sure Kubota has info on warranty and normal use.
I work with video equipment daily and there's a pile.
Consumer: You buy off the self at Walmart, etc.
Prosumer: A bit more features.
Professional: More control over the features and a little sturdier.
Industrial. The strongest built. Lots of advances. Made to use 8+ hours a day.
Industrial. Heavy duty everything especially frame, hydraulic arms, pumps etc.
I'd hate to see somebody shuck out $15,000 and destroy it.
I'm sure Kubota has info on warranty and normal use.
I work with video equipment daily and there's a pile.
Consumer: You buy off the self at Walmart, etc.
Prosumer: A bit more features.
Professional: More control over the features and a little sturdier.
Industrial. The strongest built. Lots of advances. Made to use 8+ hours a day.
I agree with.. theboman. I was going to get a BX23 but with further research found out that it is exactly as theboman stated. $15,000 for a glorified lawn tractor? I don't think so. Therefore, I went and bought a KIOTI CK20 TLB. "The pack is coming". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jlbota
Gold Member
The BX22 and BX23 are stout little machines. They are built very much like the bigger machines just in a smaller package.
I bet there are guys out there that use these on a daily basis for the smaller jobs that it can handle. As far as Kubota stating they are small estate machines for planting trees and such...I really think that is just a sales tactic for potential customers. ( Just my opinion ) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I bet there are guys out there that use these on a daily basis for the smaller jobs that it can handle. As far as Kubota stating they are small estate machines for planting trees and such...I really think that is just a sales tactic for potential customers. ( Just my opinion ) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
jlbota
Gold Member
Oh.....I also don't think you can dig a 6ft hole with a lawn tractor. This is a bit more than a glorified lawn tractor for sure. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Oh.....I also don't think you can dig a 6ft hole with a lawn tractor. This is a bit more than a glorified lawn tractor for sure. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>
I said "glorified"! You'll get it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I said "glorified"! You'll get it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
So, are you telling me that if I have a large estate, the BX is fine? But anything other then estate is bad? It is kind of a loaded question if you think about it. Example, you can have an estate at 10 acres and need landscape done. So, if you use the word estate you are fine. Also you need a lot of landscaping holes dug, trenches etc. So you can use the BX over some timeline and be fine? Again, define estate; it is 1.5 acres or 20 acres (farm). Is not a farm an estate? Not trying to be a pain but estate could mean many things to many people unless it is defined in Kubota manual (for use terms).
Again, I do not know what you are comparing it too. You say ,” Industrial. Heavy duty everything especially frame, hydraulic arms, pumps etc.” but I need examples on non –heavy duty, pump etc to compare. Granted some heavy duty is better but again, some heavy duty is sometimes nothing more then a thicker material (1/32 “, big deal) thicker power coat paint, thicker housing. Just because it is heavy duty does not mean better. Example, my car has small, lighter parts then my old Powerstroke diesel and the diesel was in the shop more in 3 months then my car after 27 months! Bigger, heavier is not always better. If heavy duty was better the Japan would be out of business.
Again, I could careless but I think someone needs to define there questions better since I could use it daily for an estate and be ok, but business use a no no, as you stated. Example is like above. I need it for 4 hours a day for personal estate and business 30 minutes. So you are saying the estate is ok (@ 4 hours) for use when the business is 87.5% less time. Even though Kubota says personal use is fine and business is not as good. It could be a flip-flop here.
Yup, Kubota has stuff printed in there manual, but it does not have daily timelines, definitions etc. Only thing stated is that the warranty is like half for business use, or something like that. Never mind that it is near impossible to prove anything that it is used for a business or not. I do a lot of work at home. It could be 40 hours per year or 4000 hours. I could own 7 homes and all “estates”…You get my point I hope.
Lastly, Industrial COULD be stronger but just because it is classified as such means little. Show me how it compares, then lets talk.
Ps. Advances sometimes are not the fast, best, & correct way to go unless there was some thinking about it. Also price for it and return of on the product comes into play.
****Electrical equipment is all the same, made overseas since the US stuff is well, not industrial.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Again, I do not know what you are comparing it too. You say ,” Industrial. Heavy duty everything especially frame, hydraulic arms, pumps etc.” but I need examples on non –heavy duty, pump etc to compare. Granted some heavy duty is better but again, some heavy duty is sometimes nothing more then a thicker material (1/32 “, big deal) thicker power coat paint, thicker housing. Just because it is heavy duty does not mean better. Example, my car has small, lighter parts then my old Powerstroke diesel and the diesel was in the shop more in 3 months then my car after 27 months! Bigger, heavier is not always better. If heavy duty was better the Japan would be out of business.
Again, I could careless but I think someone needs to define there questions better since I could use it daily for an estate and be ok, but business use a no no, as you stated. Example is like above. I need it for 4 hours a day for personal estate and business 30 minutes. So you are saying the estate is ok (@ 4 hours) for use when the business is 87.5% less time. Even though Kubota says personal use is fine and business is not as good. It could be a flip-flop here.
Yup, Kubota has stuff printed in there manual, but it does not have daily timelines, definitions etc. Only thing stated is that the warranty is like half for business use, or something like that. Never mind that it is near impossible to prove anything that it is used for a business or not. I do a lot of work at home. It could be 40 hours per year or 4000 hours. I could own 7 homes and all “estates”…You get my point I hope.
Lastly, Industrial COULD be stronger but just because it is classified as such means little. Show me how it compares, then lets talk.
Ps. Advances sometimes are not the fast, best, & correct way to go unless there was some thinking about it. Also price for it and return of on the product comes into play.
****Electrical equipment is all the same, made overseas since the US stuff is well, not industrial.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Henro
Super Member
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This thread seems to have drifted a bit away from the original posters question about the BX23 backhoe mounting... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
My take on the "is it stronger/weaker better/worse" issue is that one would have to do some calculations and specific compaisons before he would know for sure [if for sure is possible] whether a small TLB like the BX22/23 is less rugged, more rugged or equally rugged as a different TLB.
It might even be possible that the BX TLB is more rugged than a bigger TLB, if one would calculate the stresses and loads felt by the pins, bearings and mounting points. Since it is all-around smaller, there would be less force/torque felt by the parts. So the parts being smaller does not necessarily mean that they are weaker/less durable.
It is possible that BX components are stressed relatively less than a larger backhoe's, in terms of torque and pressure.
So the reality of the matter could be that the little bx might be as rugged, or even more rugged than a larger machine!
I am not saying it is, I don't know. But I do know that opinion that is not backed up by specific fact is just that, simply opinion...guess this is mine... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
My take on the "is it stronger/weaker better/worse" issue is that one would have to do some calculations and specific compaisons before he would know for sure [if for sure is possible] whether a small TLB like the BX22/23 is less rugged, more rugged or equally rugged as a different TLB.
It might even be possible that the BX TLB is more rugged than a bigger TLB, if one would calculate the stresses and loads felt by the pins, bearings and mounting points. Since it is all-around smaller, there would be less force/torque felt by the parts. So the parts being smaller does not necessarily mean that they are weaker/less durable.
It is possible that BX components are stressed relatively less than a larger backhoe's, in terms of torque and pressure.
So the reality of the matter could be that the little bx might be as rugged, or even more rugged than a larger machine!
I am not saying it is, I don't know. But I do know that opinion that is not backed up by specific fact is just that, simply opinion...guess this is mine... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
theboman
Veteran Member
Okay, I'm not the expert. Go to your Kubota dealer and tell him what you will be doing with your future purchase.
A BX can handle digging holes, moving dirt around etc, and of course they type of soil has a lot to do with what BX can do.
A BX is designed to handle a wide variety of chores on an estate, which can be an acre or 100.... What's an estate auction? But a BX is not designed to dig holes 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have a B7500 and it's not designed for that either.
Just ask the dealer, heck there's many here, and if you take the time to visit Kubota.com it has BX listed: Home Mowing, Gardening, Light Material Handling, Towing.
TLB is still a tractor, no matter what size. A backhoe is not a tractor it's built to dig, move dirt. There are a difference in frames, mounting etc.
I hate seeing equipment/tools destroyed doing things they were not intended to do. When that's the case it's operator error most the time since any respectable dealer won't sell something knowing good and well it will fell to do the job. Repeat business is the key to success.
A BX can handle digging holes, moving dirt around etc, and of course they type of soil has a lot to do with what BX can do.
A BX is designed to handle a wide variety of chores on an estate, which can be an acre or 100.... What's an estate auction? But a BX is not designed to dig holes 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have a B7500 and it's not designed for that either.
Just ask the dealer, heck there's many here, and if you take the time to visit Kubota.com it has BX listed: Home Mowing, Gardening, Light Material Handling, Towing.
TLB is still a tractor, no matter what size. A backhoe is not a tractor it's built to dig, move dirt. There are a difference in frames, mounting etc.
I hate seeing equipment/tools destroyed doing things they were not intended to do. When that's the case it's operator error most the time since any respectable dealer won't sell something knowing good and well it will fell to do the job. Repeat business is the key to success.
theboman
Veteran Member
If it was just a sales tactic... Why wouldn't they say the the BX is an industrial machine for the home owner? Because it's not.
It can handle the things advertised and some things not advertised. As with all products they can all do more than what is listed but due to warranty issues, insurance etc there must be limits placed somewhere.
It can handle the things advertised and some things not advertised. As with all products they can all do more than what is listed but due to warranty issues, insurance etc there must be limits placed somewhere.
toy1
Silver Member
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As far as if the mounts are rugged. The backhoe mounts just like my L48. same type of design. I purchased the bx23 for finish work,and for repair and maintenance on finish projects. I would not hessataite to use it 8 hours a day, if I needed to dig a trench for a new electrical line or waterline in a finished area I would use it over The L48. I think that the machine is designed to work day in day out within it's realm. however it is marketed to try and penatrate a market segement of would be DYI to expand the market place. I believe by the sales of this unit out the door Kobota is acheiving their objective. If you needed to dig 5foot trenches day in and day out you purchased the wrong machine. That is the same as saying if I need to dig 8 foot trenches day in day out even the L48 might not be the right machine can it do it of course just like the bx23 could do 5 foot trenches. Use the machine within the mean of it's operating range and from time to time at it's extream end and you probably have the proper machine.
This is just my opinion.
This is just my opinion.
jlbota
Gold Member
Yes its pretty rugged. Sorry about getting off topic. The BX is very well built. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
jsduke
Bronze Member
Maybe the apparent confusion is durability vs. capability. I'm kinda wondering whether non-industrial (industrial meaning purpose-built for construction/excavation) units when carrying a strongly mounted bh(w/subframe or newer 4 pt.) have almost as much durability within their capability.
An example by comparison would be an L-35 versus an Grand L series with the BH90 hoe. The L-35 boasts a bucket force of nearly 5000 lbs. while the similarly sized BH90 less than 3900. The dipperstick figures are 3600 vs. 2600. These tractors are not that far apart in weight either. Yes the L35 (B21 & L48 as well) has an elaborate box frame that bridges the underside of the tractor which ties the loader and hoe together and helps to isolate the digging/loading forces from the the cases ( I'm assuming the 21, 35 and 48 utilize a cast case structure similar to most tractors). This frame does give these units extra beef and allows for the use of stronger hydraulics resulting in greater capability. I'm sure it also adds abuse insurance as well. Even so, the BH90 and the newer Woods units also utilize a frame (albeit not as elaborate) that bridges the cases. In the case of the BH90 that frame is fairly stout.
Back on point; I would think these strongly mounted units on BX22/23's etc. would hold up to prolonged use within their capabilty and maybe a little (but not too much) more.
Maybe the real capabilties of these and other (B's and L's ) tractors with Kubota and non Kubota bh's should be discussed. Light might be shed. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
duke.
An example by comparison would be an L-35 versus an Grand L series with the BH90 hoe. The L-35 boasts a bucket force of nearly 5000 lbs. while the similarly sized BH90 less than 3900. The dipperstick figures are 3600 vs. 2600. These tractors are not that far apart in weight either. Yes the L35 (B21 & L48 as well) has an elaborate box frame that bridges the underside of the tractor which ties the loader and hoe together and helps to isolate the digging/loading forces from the the cases ( I'm assuming the 21, 35 and 48 utilize a cast case structure similar to most tractors). This frame does give these units extra beef and allows for the use of stronger hydraulics resulting in greater capability. I'm sure it also adds abuse insurance as well. Even so, the BH90 and the newer Woods units also utilize a frame (albeit not as elaborate) that bridges the cases. In the case of the BH90 that frame is fairly stout.
Back on point; I would think these strongly mounted units on BX22/23's etc. would hold up to prolonged use within their capabilty and maybe a little (but not too much) more.
Maybe the real capabilties of these and other (B's and L's ) tractors with Kubota and non Kubota bh's should be discussed. Light might be shed. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
duke.
