BX2380 tipping concerns

[ruffdog]

Hi David,

I did check my tire pressure a week on the weekend but the temperature here dropped considerably since then so that's on my list today.
The manual says 14 psi for rear turf tires (the ones I have) but I believe my pressure on the tires themselves are 22 in the front and 20 in the back.
14 seems odd. I may be reading the manual wrong but I always default to what the actual tire says.

Andrew

20 psi in the rears is too much....follow the manual with the 14 psi. When I had my TC33D tractor, I too used it mainly for mowing with limited loader and 3pt work. I also would leave the loader off while mowing because of weight and maneuvering. If I ever did loader work, I could always mount the tiller on the 3pt for weight. I never loaded the tires either as my snow plowing is done on the flat and never needed it.

 

[Andrew2019]

With the quick connect loader I leave it off unless I need to use it. Very handy and easy to switch.
90% of the time I don't have the loader on. Which is why these questions are coming up now.
The driveway is flat for the most part. I have a slight incline getting out but I'd either be driving up or down the incline. I'm not worried there.

I've never felt tippy with the loader off and the mower on (no ballast) even driving sideways on a slight incline in the summer.
Should I have? Or does the 60" mower shift put the centre of gravity lower? That coupled with the lack of a loader while mowing?

I apologize if I sound like an idiot or if I'm belabouring this point. I just want to use the BX properly and with an education on its limits and safety.

(responding to a post earlier my seatbelt is always on and there's only one tree where I have to lower the roll bar, only to raise it right after. The branch will be cut next year.)

Andrew

 

[tractorshopper]

Mine has R4's and they are supposed to be 20 on the rear and if I get down to 15, the tractor will lean in whichever direction is lower pressure. I don't have any experience with turf tires, so don't know what to suggest or whether that configuration would be more tippy or not just by nature.

 

[CobyRupert]

Andrew....load up that rear ballast box with some weight. Your front axle does nothing to keep you from tipping because it pivots at one point in the center. Your rear axle doesn't pivot so that is the one that keeps you stable but it needs weight to plant it to the ground. Are your rear tires fluid filled? If not, start with 300+ lbs in the box and work up from there.

:thumbsup:
The tire spacers that make rear tire stance wider, are probably unnecessary in your case, and won't fix the root of your problem, which is lack of rear ballast. You seem to be on flat ground so you're not really (what I think of) "tippy", just lacking rear weight. Can't tell from pictures how much front tires are squatting under load, but back tires look like they're almost off the ground.

Types of rear ballast usually are:
- A ballast box on 3 point hitch (behind rear axle)
- Loaded (with liquid) rear tires
- Wheel weights mounted on rear rim.

Things to consider when choosing type:
- Rear ballast located behind the rear axle (in ballast box) takes more weight off the front axle, than other types. (like a "see-saw" where rear axle is the fulcrum). - Ballast boxes are versatile, and can be easily remove or added. Ballast box may either raise or lower tractors center of gravity depending on how distributed and carried. The height of the tractor's center of gravity is most important to avoid rolling over on side hills. Lower ballast and FEL as much as possible when on sidehills. Ballast boxes add additional length...less maneuverability....but the farther away from rear axle the more effective they are (i.e. less weight req'd).
- Loaded tires where most of the liquid is below the tractors axle and may lower the tractors center of gravity more than wheel weights centered around the tractors axle. Most people do not seasonally add and remove liquid from tires, so consider if you want additional weight on lawn when mowing in summer. Looks like you could add 8 gallons (89 lb) per tire. You probably want more than 178 lbs of additional ballast if you're that tippy.
- Wheel weights are seasonally removable, and leave 3 point hitch available for other attachments.

I'm sure there's other +/- to the different types.

 

[RjCorazza]

...The driveway is flat for the most part. I have a slight incline getting out but I'd either be driving up or down the incline. I'm not worried there....

Since we're talking about fel's and stability, driving down inclines with a loaded fel is also not without risk. Without front brakes, and reduced rear weight on even a property ballasted tractor can result in an out of control slide. Always be in 4wd when descending a slope with a loaded fel.

 

[ruffdog]

Mine has R4's and they are supposed to be 20 on the rear and if I get down to 15, the tractor will lean in whichever direction is lower pressure. I don't have any experience with turf tires, so don't know what to suggest or whether that configuration would be more tippy or not just by nature.

R4 tires always run more pressure than turfs because they are stiff with more plys.

 

[ruffdog]

With the quick connect loader I leave it off unless I need to use it. Very handy and easy to switch.
90% of the time I don't have the loader on. Which is why these questions are coming up now.
The driveway is flat for the most part. I have a slight incline getting out but I'd either be driving up or down the incline. I'm not worried there.

I've never felt tippy with the loader off and the mower on (no ballast) even driving sideways on a slight incline in the summer.
Should I have? Or does the 60" mower shift put the centre of gravity lower? That coupled with the lack of a loader while mowing?

I apologize if I sound like an idiot or if I'm belabouring this point. I just want to use the BX properly and with an education on its limits and safety.

(responding to a post earlier my seatbelt is always on and there's only one tree where I have to lower the roll bar, only to raise it right after. The branch will be cut next year.)

Andrew

Do you have a belly mower or a rear mounted mower on the 3pt?

 

[JWR]

Hi troopr31

I've never heard of a rear wheel spacer.

That sounds like a thing the dealer would have to install?
Is there a link online?

Drew

Andrew -- I have read all the posts in this thread and I own a BX2200 with loader very much the same as yours in context of tipping or balance. I have ~ 800 hrs on this BX2200. My comments to you are:

1) Unless you operate on steep ground you do not need wheel spacers. No, they are not dealer install items for most people. I have much wider (6" each side) wheel spacers on my B2150 which is a little larger than yours but that is only because of steep hillside operational need. You can get rear wheel spacers from several sources. Mine are Bora brand. If you have normal tools, jack etc. you can install them yourself. As others said the wheels will not clear your mower deck if the spacers move the tires outward too much. NOT your main issue in my view.
2) These little tractors are all "tipsy" with a loader on them. Just get used to it. Keeping the loaded loader close to the ground is the main thing. YES, rear ballast makes a huge difference and YES put in your sandbags.
3) I do not run fluid in my rear tires (except on large farm tractors.) You don't really need it as long as you use the rear ballast which is better with more leverage anyway.
4) Refer to your owner's booklet (or the side of the tires themselves) but the front tires need around 20 psi while the rears need around 12 to 14 psi. Not critical and NOT the solution to your expressed issue at all. Basically irrelevant as long as the inflation is in a reasonable range. Certainly NOT what is causing your tipsy experiences.
5) While the self-appointed so called "safety" nuts will be sucked out of the woodwork on this one, I DO NOT wear seatbelts on a tractor. Specifically on a BX2200 I have had the thing tip enough to raise one rear wheel off the ground and, having enough sense NOT to be wearing a blasted seatbelt, I was able to put my fat butt over to that side and bring the tire back to earth. Generally tipping on these tractors is not a sudden jerk but rather a slow-motion sort of event. Again, if you keep the loader LOW, use plenty of BALLAST, and stay alert you will not have serious problems. If you feel it getting tipsy, slap the loader DOWN onto the ground ASAP.

 

[Andrew2019]

Hi jwr,

Thanks for the synopsis of the thread. Everyone here has given great advice.
Going through your post,
I don't think I have very steep areas, more of a rolling lawn, fairly flat, which was why I was concerned.
I'm going to put about 300lbs in the rear ballast box and see how that feels. That seems to be the consensus here.
Front Turf tires need 17 PSI, rear turf tires need 14 psi. I think I was reading the MAX psi on the tire. I'll let some air out and get closer to the manual recommended psi. I though the ride was a little too bouncy anyway.
The bucket is always low, usually 6 inches off the ground which in hindsight probably was the only thing that prevented a tip over.

I'll load up the ballast and drive around this week and post back.

Thanks guys

 

[AHNC]

"The seat of the pants" on a BX tells you it will fall over on flat ground. I have had mine on the same property for 11 years now, and know what slopes I am comfortable on while paying attention to the ground conditions. On the steeper parts I go up and down the fall line only. Scares the heck out of me on a cross slope. I think I'll check out the extenders too.

 

[George the Beagle]

Wheel spacers aren't very common on a BX; much more so for B's. I wouldn't be doing any loader work at all without rear ballast. As another poster said, the front axle pivots, the rear does not so it's important to have some weight back there. I have loaded tires on mine. Between that and me in the seat it works pretty well. Put on your ballast, keep the bucket down and you'll be fine.

 

[Henro]

There is very little clearance on a BX for wheel spacers if a MMM us used. I think the max is 1" and that is pushing it, from what I have read.

As others have said, add weight to keep the rear wheels on the ground. Remember the Front axle pivots in the center.

If the rear wheels come up, it is unlikely the the load will be perfectly balanced, and the tractor will tip to one side or the other, even if there may be no actual danger at that moment for a tip over to actually happen. In other words, you could reach the limit of travel of the front end, when the frame hits the stops on the axle, and stop tipping at that moment.

Add weight to the back of the tractor...:drink:

 

[civilian]

One other thought about tippyness is the load in the bucket balanced? Using both my BX2230 and B26TLB hauling dirt around, I can feel a sense of tippyness if the bucket gets loading unevenly when going into the dirt pile. Then if I dug a hole entering the dirt pile by spinning the tires,(yes in 4wd) then hitting one might give a tippy feeling (in a side to side direction, not end over end). This and the fact that I am on uneven ground. Both tractors have loaded tires and the BX has wheel weights and possible a back blade on, though not always. The B26TLB has loaded tires and a backhoe on. I have also rotated the backhoe uphill to help balance the loader bucket on uneven ground. The garage is on the only flat spot. The other buildings are on slopes. All this is new construction with me doing the backfill and landscaping. But I think the OP was loading firewood, which should be a balanced load. Just some other thoughts on tippy feeling. Jon

 

[Andrew2019]

Hi guys
I loaded the ballast with approx 300 lbs of sand and felt much better with the loader. Although I wasn稚 on uneven ground the BX felt much steadier. I値l be loading wood tomorrow and on more uneven ground. I値l check back in then as well.

 

[Andrew2019]

Just wanted to come back with some final thoughts.
I have the 300+ lbs of sand in the ballast box and keep the firewood load as low as possible.(nothing more than what you see in the original post pictures)

I still feel I could tip the tractor if I pushed hard enough but its far better now.
I drive very slow and watch for any abrupt changes in terrain.

I'm probably being too cautious (is there such a thing?) but I'm not sure of myself on some of the terrain I have in my yard.
Just wondering what degree of slope would be a tipping point? (might be a question that can't be answered as there are too many variables)
I don't think my land is too steep in any one spot.

To be clear, the problem with tipping is mostly when you have the loader on?
I never felt any issues when I didn't have the loader connected (I also almost always had the 60" mowing deck on the bottom as well, I'm guessing that did a lot to keep the centre of gravity low)

Drew

 

[Tractor Seabee]

After reading all this I'm shocked I haven't tipped it thus far! I didn't even get a casual warning I should have ballast in the back if I use the loader from the dealer when I bought it.

I didn't have the loader on much during the summer, I mainly used for mowing. I have the 60" deck and I thought it felt pretty safe. I was whipping around pretty good in fact.
Is it mainly with the loader that you definitely need the ballast?
As I said I have a bunch of sandbags but if that doesn't get me to 300lbs I have tons of bricks on the property to fill the box.

I've never heard of tire ballast. Is it a liquid you leave in year round?

Andrew

BX tires do not hold enough fluid to make it worthwhile. I have 500# of suitcase weights that work great. Made brackets to install either front or back in the increments needed. My 25 has the BH so that makes good ballast which is movable by keeping it on the uphill side down low. Until 3 years ago I had 29 AC of hilly timber. Moved some loads, including long logs, many times. Just have to be careful and maintain situational awareness.

Ron

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Just keep working slow, don't get over confident, and seat time. It took me about a month of pretty constant operating to get comfortable. Now reactions are pretty much automatic. Alcohol can be your worst enemy. I never drink before or during operations. It can make you cocky regardless what some may say. During that forest work I put 1500 hours on my BX in 5 years. It now shows it but runs great.

Ron

 

[Gator6x4]

Andrew....load up that rear ballast box with some weight. Your front axle does nothing to keep you from tipping because it pivots at one point in the center. Your rear axle doesn't pivot so that is the one that keeps you stable but it needs weight to plant it to the ground. Are your rear tires fluid filled? If not, start with 300+ lbs in the box and work up from there.

Agree that rear ballast is needed. I would start with 400-500 pounds, since the rear tires are not loaded. People also think tractors have brakes like cars and trucks, they don’t. When using a loader on uneven terrain and one gets the rear wheels off the ground and are going down hill, you are along for the ride. Having the tractor in four wheel drive helps some when this happens, but is not a sure cure to prevent the problem.

 

[mikester]

Just wanted to come back with some final thoughts.
I have the 300+ lbs of sand in the ballast box and keep the firewood load as low as possible.(nothing more than what you see in the original post pictures)

I still feel I could tip the tractor if I pushed hard enough but its far better now.
I drive very slow and watch for any abrupt changes in terrain.

I'm probably being too cautious (is there such a thing?) but I'm not sure of myself on some of the terrain I have in my yard.
Just wondering what degree of slope would be a tipping point? (might be a question that can't be answered as there are too many variables)
I don't think my land is too steep in any one spot.

To be clear, the problem with tipping is mostly when you have the loader on?
I never felt any issues when I didn't have the loader connected (I also almost always had the 60" mowing deck on the bottom as well, I'm guessing that did a lot to keep the centre of gravity low)

Drew

Heres a good experiment for you. Stand on a chair holding 40 lbs of weight in your hands with your arms straight and perpendicular to your body. Have your wife give your shoulder a push to the side. Do you wobble?

 

[whatever1]

Is there a tractor nea r this size that is more stable ????