BX25 Mid PTO Pump or BUST

[Artisan]

Here is a few quick thoughts. A high pressure piston pump run off of the tractor res. Low flow but high pressure so as not to heat up the fluid in the tractor. Good for a snow blower or the like, not so good for a splitter or any volume related app. Pump would be easy to mount under the tractor and direct drive with just a coupler. A standard gear pump will be higher volume but cheaper, I am not comfortable pulling 20+ gpm from the tractors res. So back to a 3 point res/pump combo and gearing up a drive for a gear pump. That will get me 25gpm at 2500psi and no heating issues or intermixing of fluids. I do Hydraulics for a living and this seems to be the best all around option. So I guess like everything else it depends on what you want to do. CJ

CJ your light years ahead of me, a plumbing contractor by trade
I am and totally new to tractors less my BX25 aquasistion 5 months ago.
I am not 1/2 bad at fabricating, at least I can make stuff work for decades usually so I'll try.

I guess what I really want to do, is find a way to add a pump so I can run
higher volume hydraulic tools and implements, maybe even handheld tools WITHOUT tapping into the BX25's plumbing. I want to leave the tractor itself alone so it remains somewhat bulletproof!

I want to first focus on and try to use the Mid PTO because I have no mmm, and it will leave the rear PTO open for more fun later. I must engineer / find an elegant solution to this Mid PTO pump / ground clearance problem.* It could really turn into something I could use and arguably many others as well. Kubota has me really mad, when I call to get info all those customer service folks are trained to say; "We do not support modification of our tractors" and they simply can not comprehend
that it is MY TRACTOR and "I" want to modify it so why can't YOU give me the info I seek. ARGHH! Oh man don't get me going on them...that is another thread...

I am thinking I might like a hydraulic auger. I read the BX can barely push them. I don't want a machine that is a pig, I want a rip-snortin' hole-drillin'
dirt flingin' unit, within reason of coarse, but certainly not under or barely
powerful enough. I want my auger mounted center of the FEL Bucket as well, probably utilizing the GrappleOmatics grapple cylinder top mount to hang the auger from, the one on-center of the picture you see at that link.

So to pull this off I believe I need to make a "system" . So I need a pump, a small reservoir which will prob have to be unconventional in shape, OR strap it inside the FEL's bucket?, A filter perhaps, hoses to and fro, maybe a pressure relief, the Auger itself, and a valve. Maybe a foot valve? That way I am hands on all other controls keeping the bit "plumb". What else am I missing for a simple hydraulic circuit like this?

*The pump and it's placement and how to spin it are #1 on my to do list.
A short solid coupler perhaps off the Mid PTO 10-Spline 31/32" shaft? to a pump that is not fat that would reduce ground clearance terribly, but a longer pump maybe?, again so as to keep ground clearance sane. If
that isn't possible then maybe the BX2753 Mid PTO shaft up to the front maybe and put a pump up high, up there perhaps!

kubota has a front mounted sweeper and snowblower that uses a long shaft from the mid pto, maybe those parts. I need to see that shaft installed, how low is it?

I wish I had access to a all these parts, I would be almost done

 

[bcp]

Maybe these will help on the driveshaft location.

http://pictures.dealer.com/t/tractorlandairdrietc/1697/8ae558b0c0f0944205de8046344ba16cx.jpg

IRON Search - 2003 Kubota BX2357 Sweeper For Sale By Island Tractor & Supply Ltd. in British Columbia

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...lp-quick-hitch-snowblower-kubota-11-small.jpg

Bruce

 

[CJONE]

CJ your light years ahead of me, a plumbing contractor by trade
I am and totally new to tractors less my BX25 aquasistion 5 months ago.
I am not 1/2 bad at fabricating, at least I can make stuff work for decades usually so I'll try.

I guess what I really want to do, is find a way to add a pump so I can run
higher volume hydraulic tools and implements, maybe even handheld tools WITHOUT tapping into the BX25's plumbing. I want to leave the tractor itself alone so it remains somewhat bulletproof!

I want to first focus on and try to use the Mid PTO because I have no mmm, and it will leave the rear PTO open for more fun later. I must engineer / find an elegant solution to this Mid PTO pump / ground clearance problem.* It could really turn into something I could use and arguably many others as well. Kubota has me really mad, when I call to get info all those customer service folks are trained to say; "We do not support modification of our tractors" and they simply can not comprehend
that it is MY TRACTOR and "I" want to modify it so why can't YOU give me the info I seek. ARGHH! Oh man don't get me going on them...that is another thread...

I am thinking I might like a hydraulic auger. I read the BX can barely push them. I don't want a machine that is a pig, I want a rip-snortin' hole-drillin'
dirt flingin' unit, within reason of coarse, but certainly not under or barely
powerful enough. I want my auger mounted center of the FEL Bucket as well, probably utilizing the GrappleOmatics grapple cylinder top mount to hang the auger from, the one on-center of the picture you see at that link.

So to pull this off I believe I need to make a "system" . So I need a pump, a small reservoir which will prob have to be unconventional in shape, OR strap it inside the FEL's bucket?, A filter perhaps, hoses to and fro, maybe a pressure relief, the Auger itself, and a valve. Maybe a foot valve? That way I am hands on all other controls keeping the bit "plumb". What else am I missing for a simple hydraulic circuit like this?

*The pump and it's placement and how to spin it are #1 on my to do list.
A short solid coupler perhaps off the Mid PTO 10-Spline 31/32" shaft? to a pump that is not fat that would reduce ground clearance terribly, but a longer pump maybe?, again so as to keep ground clearance sane. If
that isn't possible then maybe the BX2753 Mid PTO shaft up to the front maybe and put a pump up high, up there perhaps!

kubota has a front mounted sweeper and snowblower that uses a long shaft from the mid pto, maybe those parts. I need to see that shaft installed, how low is it?

I wish I had access to a all these parts, I would be almost done

The first thing you need to do IMHO is to find out the requirements of your auger. Like was said the 17HP will limit the speed of the auger not the torque. But all the torque in the world will make no difference at 1 RPM!! I just raised the torque of a rail drill on a excavator to 11000 FT LBS by adjusting the relief up to 4k psi. BUT first double checked that the pump and motor was rated for the pressure. My guess is he will be twisting off augers now. You will be limited by Horsepower for what you want to do. Also remember that you will loose at least 25% of your HP to efficientcy loss with hydraulics. CJ

 

[Artisan]

Awsome! Were clicking along here, Thank you CJONEs And along those lines of demand..., I just spoke to a Danauser rep, GREAT he took the time to call me! After talking to him I really hope I can get 10 minimum, better 15 GPM's for performance sakes. He just now enlightened me so there is a goal right there. I want to get as much as I pussible can, easier to throttle it down then to try to make it do more.

Hydraulic efficiency, I need to be thinking friction loss don't I? Do they
make long radius 90 degree fittings instead of abrupt 90's? :thumbsup: So a high effiency pump as well yes?

 

[Artisan]

Maybe these will help on the driveshaft location.

http://pictures.dealer.com/t/tractorlandairdrietc/1697/8ae558b0c0f0944205de8046344ba16cx.jpg

IRON Search - 2003 Kubota BX2357 Sweeper For Sale By Island Tractor & Supply Ltd. in British Columbia

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...lp-quick-hitch-snowblower-kubota-11-small.jpg

Bruce

EXACTLY bcp, The 1st and 3rd pics show that Mid PTO Driveshaft installed, very good, exactly the kind of thing I want to see, I want to see more to if
anyone has this set up, gawd I want to see more, like lay on your back and
snap pics w/ light looking up at how it all connects...

THANK YA!

the 2nd pic I had, Thank you anywho!

So right or wrong an idea is a pump run w/ this Mid PTO Shaft up front
up high out of the way perhaps....got to think outside the proverbial box!~

 

[J_J]

Rules are rules, you just can not get more than 8.6 GPM out of 17 HP unless you run the motor at less pressure.

If you limit it to 2500 psi, then you will get about 10 GPM at 17 HP

You can get more GPM's if you reduce the pressure, but the torque will decrease.

Another option is to make a 3pt hyd pkg, which contains a high HP motor driving a pump with filter and valve assembly, which could be carried with the 3pt to provide all your hyd needs..

This is going above what your tractor can supply, but is an option that won't wear out the tractor hyd, and is a stand alone hyd unit.

I believe some of the other TBN people have some of these units.

A 30 HP engine could drive a gear pump and produce about 15 GPM's at 3000 psi.

 

[Artisan]

Rules are rules, you just can not get more than 8.6 GPM out of 17 HP unless you run the motor at less pressure.

If you limit it to 2500 psi, then you will get about 10 GPM at 17 HP

You can get more GPM's if you reduce the pressure, but the torque will decrease.

Another option is to make a 3pt hyd pkg, which contains a high HP motor driving a pump with filter and valve assembly, which could be carried with the 3pt to provide all your hyd needs..

This is going above what your tractor can supply, but is an option that won't wear out the tractor hyd, and is a stand alone hyd unit.

I believe some of the other TBN people have some of these units.

A 30 HP engine could drive a gear pump and produce about 15 GPM's at 3000 psi.

Well I guess my idea will not work.
What about a transmission on the MidPTO, what if there were a tranny
that spun 50% slower and 50% more the power?

Is that feasable?

 

[J_J]

You would still be limited by available HP.

 

[CJONE]

J J covered everything pretty well. You can't get something you don't have HP wise. What is the required pressure? If it is low enough you my get 10 GPM at 2k with efficiency loss. That would require 13.5 electric so about 15 hp diesel. CJ

 

[aczlan]

Might be worth getting another mid pto stub shaft (or pulling yours), then have a machine make a replacement with the outside end cut to match your pump's input shaft...

Aaron Z