Bye, Bye Branson???

[whizdbiz2]

Lastly, it is interesting how many of the more superficial items like knobs, switches and even steering wheels seem to be the exact same across multiple lines like LS/TYM/Kukje.

Interesting indeed, but I think that makes sense and cuts down on cost... why design and manufacture something like a loader control or steering wheel, or even an engine for that matter, when you can buy what you need and incorporate it into your tractor design. Maybe even an entire tractor built with your colors or sheet metal (plastic?) to fill out the holes in your line. Even in Asia it has to be horribly expensive to start a factory, design and test a part and source materials and hire labor, etc. vs. unloading a truck from a supplier.

 

[AxleHub]

Whether its TYM or Branson product . . the focus needs to be on improving and expanding the dealer sales/service network. The Branson side is in need of both impriving and expanding . . while the TYMM side needs expanding. Imo all the quality in the world doesn't help if prospects don't see your product or can't trust you'll have other locations I the area if a dealer fails or quits.

I continue to wonder how focused TYM can be when the Branson distractions are now part of the effort.

Does anyone know how many TYM dealers are in the US ? And how many Branson dealers in the US ? We've all read TBN posts where they describe a location that sells lawn miwers and then gas a single Branson tractor on the lot and its been there for awhile How many Branson "dealers" are lawn and garden shops with a single Branson product on their location ?

 

[Infinite Wisdom]

I suspect many Branson sales locations are primarily string trimmer / lawn mower repair shops.

I'm beginning to think there are too many CUT brands in the marketplace. Don't get me wrong, Branson builds a good tractor, they just don't seem to be able to get most of the buying public to actually buy one. A big part of that has to be the appearance of a weak dealer network. The TYM / Branson deal clouds Branson's viability further.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I could be wrong but Branson's 20 series and even smaller 15 series has an 8 lug rear axle flange, not 6, which tells me that there is some beef going on, which i like and is perhaps also tied in with the fact that branson in general is a heavy weight when compared to others.

I personally saw TWO Branson's with broken bell housings from doing loader work, and not long ago there was a third one on this site... I've not seen even one TYM broken in half, and my local TYM dealer hasn't seen one either...

Personally, I think the TYM is the better built tractor...

SR

 

[Btown]

I personally saw TWO Branson's with broken bell housings from doing loader work, and not long ago there was a third one on this site... I've not seen even one TYM broken in half, and my local TYM dealer hasn't seen one either... Personally, I think the TYM is the better built tractor... SR

Even with all the ones TYM make for mahindra they seem to only have minor problems. Not sure if they are dealer prep issues or manufacture issues. The only real problem ones were the smaller 25-30 hp ones which had frame and drive shaft problems. I think they made the frame a little weak for the tractor and would crack. Then the drive shaft was just a poor design and would strip the splines . The frame and drive shaft have been fixed so there should be less problems.

 

[DavesTractor]

Whether its TYM or Branson product . . the focus needs to be on improving and expanding the dealer sales/service network. The Branson side is in need of both impriving and expanding . . while the TYMM side needs expanding. Imo all the quality in the world doesn't help if prospects don't see your product or can't trust you'll have other locations I the area if a dealer fails or quits.

I continue to wonder how focused TYM can be when the Branson distractions are now part of the effort.

Does anyone know how many TYM dealers are in the US ? And how many Branson dealers in the US ? We've all read TBN posts where they describe a location that sells lawn miwers and then gas a single Branson tractor on the lot and its been there for awhile How many Branson "dealers" are lawn and garden shops with a single Branson product on their location ?

I think you are right, we need quality dealers that stock inventory. We keep about 40-50 Bransons on the lot, but we will sell 20-25 Bransons in a busy month (plus Mahindras) so we run out of models if we do not keep 2 months worth of units in stock. I just can't see how a guy can be a tractor business with just a handful of tractors.

TYM builds a good tractor, but has always done poorly at retailing them in the USA. The new guys at TYM for the USA are pretty top notch though, and they are quick to admit shortcomings in the past and are determined to not repeat. I like that, because if you cannot admit your past failures, you will repeat them. A little humility and determination are traits that I admire. I'm not a TYM dealer, but I suspect things are really looking up for them with the acquisition of Kukje, specifically because of the A-series Cummins engines.

 

[DavesTractor]

Even with all the ones TYM make for mahindra they seem to only have minor problems. Not sure if they are dealer prep issues or manufacture issues. The only real problem ones were the smaller 25-30 hp ones which had frame and drive shaft problems. I think they made the frame a little weak for the tractor and would crack. Then the drive shaft was just a poor design and would strip the splines . The frame and drive shaft have been fixed so there should be less problems.

I think you are referring to the ladder frame models. They are built like a subcut, similar to the BX Kubota, the GC Massey, etc., with frame rails that the engine mounts to with rubber mounts, then a transaxle that mounts to the rails in back and a driveshaft that connects them. That is all fine technology except IMHO they then added a loader with crazy lift capacity and it also had a lot of reach/height capabilities and that put a lot of strain on a design that does well with less strain. There is a reason that Kubota does not make the BX loader lift 1500 lbs. They could do that with a little hydraulic work, but then things would bust. The marketing guys that want to print big specs on the brochures need to not win over the engineering guys that want things to last. It's a balance.

 

[DavesTractor]

I personally saw TWO Branson's with broken bell housings from doing loader work, and not long ago there was a third one on this site... I've not seen even one TYM broken in half, and my local TYM dealer hasn't seen one either...

Personally, I think the TYM is the better built tractor...

SR

And we have seen numerous NH and JD with broken bell housings as well. Had a JD 110TLB come in all welded up at the bell housing. It's been several years since I have seen a broken Branson bell housing and it was on an earlier model. Often the issue, with any brand, is that the loader bolts get loose. Then things start working and it puts stresses where they should not be. When the rails that connect the bell housing area to the rear axle are nice and tight the load is spread out as designed. If you get a couple bolts loose, a third bolt broken and a 4th bolt missing, those rails are now doing more harm then good. I don't think I have seen a broken bell housing on a tractor where all the bolts were nice and tight, unless of course the operator was doing something really stupid.

 

[pete-mi]

The drive shaft problems were on the 273 and early 233's. When the T293 came out is when it was changed for that model and the T233. My T330 has the cast bell housing so I never had the smaller design to give any problems.

 

[Btown]

I think you are referring to the ladder frame models. They are built like a subcut, similar to the BX Kubota, the GC Massey, etc., with frame rails that the engine mounts to with rubber mounts, then a transaxle that mounts to the rails in back and a driveshaft that connects them. That is all fine technology except IMHO they then added a loader with crazy lift capacity and it also had a lot of reach/height capabilities and that put a lot of strain on a design that does well with less strain. There is a reason that Kubota does not make the BX loader lift 1500 lbs. They could do that with a little hydraulic work, but then things would bust. The marketing guys that want to print big specs on the brochures need to not win over the engineering guys that want things to last. It's a balance.

That's what I figured the loader was way to strong for the frame design.

 

[buickanddeere]

I haven't read the entire post but anyways . Kukje has built equipmemt for Deere, Yanmar, Cummins and Montana .
Who knows what parts may mix and match ?

 

[Handloader109]

Interesting thread. I do think a better network of dealers is needed, but what you fail to see is that the parent company may not even be thinking about the US market. What percentage of their sales is us? 5 or 6?

 

[AxleHub]

Interesting thread. I do think a better network of dealers is needed, but what you fail to see is that the parent company may not even be thinking about the US market. What percentage of their sales is us? 5 or 6?

Greetings Handloader109,

I think you need to look at the situation from a different angle. You're suggesting they may not see the U.S. as a major emphasis because its only a very small part of their activity . . . while I ser it as avery small percentage because of their failure to develop what is supposed to bea big part of their market.

Couple points to consider:

Obviously they wanted Cabelas to succeef and develop all their stores eventually to Land Management with TYM made tractors.

Obviously not properly developing the U.S. market mire fully makes their costs in the U.S. to dealers more expensive because they can't get the economies if scale.

Spotty dealerships makes TYM a more regional effort and harder to market measured by cost or competition. If TYM makes good product at reasonable pricing . . why would they not want far bigger impact in the U.S. to keep their economies of scale more lucrative and develop greater customer allegiance? Certainly they have no difficulty with manufacturing capacity . . . and Cabelas was a ray of hope that has now faded (for TYM tractors).

They bought Branson . . an American company. They are deeper financially committed than before . . but without the dealer network at this point to support it (Cabelas oppirtunity gone and Branson dealers weak).

Think of it this way . . you don't have a fleet of Nascar type race cars but only 6 drivers for them . . or the cars just sit. Now they've added even more race cars to the fleet but still very few drivers to "make them go". If TYM's products were weak . . its a different story . . but we keep hearing on TBN that the products are good. But I've never seen one at the Minnesota State Fair (a big tractor/ag event). I know no one who has one. Never even seen a used or older one. No dealers for 140 miles that I'm aware of . . except green Cabela units that I've sern nany times in many places.


My viewpoint is that TYM's marketshare is small in the US because uts self fulfilling . . they don't have enough saleforce to sell them . . and with Cabelas tractor effort now changed . . TYM needs even more to develop that sales force whether they bought Bransonn or not imo.

 

[DavesTractor]

TYM sells thousands of tractors a year in the USA to/via Mahindra. Many manufacturers over the years have struggled to retail, even as they produce fine tractors. Take Yanmar for example. I do not sell them, but I do not mind saying that it is a top quality tractor, perhaps none better. But they have flopped numerous times trying to retail direct in the USA. They did sell maybe 100k units as John Deeres in the late 70's through the 90's, and then continued on with JD to a lesser extent. Nice machines, but breaking into the USA market and setting up distribution, parts, dealers, etc. is not easy. Good tractors, fair prices...but market share didn't even make the needle move.

TYM has struggled with a dealership base and distribution model over the years as they try to sell direct. But a real problem for their profitability was that they always had to buy an engine. Not many know this, but if a manufacturer buys a Tier IV engine from some other company for a 25-40 HP tractor, nearly half the actual costs of the tractor go to the engine. That makes it tough to be profitable, the only one making a sure fire profit is the engine manufacturer. TYM needed the Kukje/Cummins engine. Another factor, is that Branson is a little like Kubota and Yanmar in that they make nearly all of the tractor themselves. TYM has historically bought more components from other sources that Branson has. What Branson has lacked is an enthusiastic parent company, but now that has changed. TYM will be more profitable as they share engines with Branson, and as their costs go down, they can make the tractor line more desirable to new dealers.

Another interesting connection is that the original president and founder of Branson Tractors (USA) back 15-20 years ago is now the new VP of TYM in the USA. I suppose when Branson (Korea) bought him out years ago he probably had a non-compete for a certain amount of years, but we are glad to see him back. He's a good man, honorable, knowledgeable, fair.

So it is hard to know how all of this will play out, but I am optimistic about it. We sell a Branson a day on average (plus Mahindra) and we are not worried.

 

[AxleHub]

Dave,

If buying engines was such a big concern . . them why do manufacturers like John Deere deliberately go out of their way to do exactly that?

 

[Btown]

Dave, If buying engines was such a big concern . . them why do manufacturers like John Deere deliberately go out of their way to do exactly that?

Maybe this is why Deere prices are sooooo much higher for similar sized tractors?

 

[DavesTractor]

Dave,

If buying engines was such a big concern . . them why do manufacturers like John Deere deliberately go out of their way to do exactly that?

That's actually a good point. Many, many brands buy engines from other makers. JD has an economy of scale and can probably demand a pretty good deal, and of course they have generations of devout followers that will pay extra if needed. For a smaller manufacturer, especially with all of the Tier IV regs, I think it is a factor.

And if JD had or has a better internal option, certainly they would use their own engine.

 

[AxleHub]

Maybe this is why Deere prices are sooooo much higher for similar sized tractors?

When jd had their own engines way back when their prices were higher than others. What j.d. has is an excellent sales and marketing strategy combined with decent product often made by others parts and components.

The difference between TYM/Branson and J.D. business models is j.d. completely understands that name recognition and dealership development mixed with decent product is the key . Comparing any product level that TYM and j.d. each have product in . . . both use other manufacturers engibes and both make a bunch of their own compinents plus others' components. Both company's products are capable and durable.

Both company's also do development work and engineering design of their own equipment. But one has always had a stribg emphasis on selling and dealer development . . and one doesn't.

Now each makes a decent product. And one sells for considerably higher pricing. Dave's Tractor says TYM just needs internal built engines to be successful. But the Branson engines didn't solve Bransons need for sales. Does TYM/Branson need engines to be successful? I think TYM needs 150 or 200 more Dave's Tractor dealers. And Branson needs 100+ more. You can't sell from dealerships you don't have. Jmho


TYM had a great opportunity from Cabelas . . but it didn't work because Cabelas couldn't ramp up fast enough and so its done. Too bad because Cabelas does know howvto market. So TYM's going to have to do it themselves.

 

[murphy1244]

And deere has been selling tractors here for how long? Now its mega dealers.

 

[jmh1783]

The question of make it in house or outsource it isn't a no brainer. Companies keep going back and forth on this type of decision. I know the one I work with loses business on occasion because they make a component and not the entire solution unlike their competitors. On the other hand we look brilliant because we make the piece that has the highest profit margin where as the other components are commodity.

Deere could decide tomorrow to start making its own engines everyone would say how brilliant they are. Specifically when it comes to engines it may be an issue with availability. Maybe TYM didn't have too many options to buy engines that met their needs and standards.

Building a dealer network is a tough thing to do in any business. A lot of companies are ill prepared to do what it takes. They have a "build it and they will come" attitude. It is really a lack of the right type of people to tackle the problem. You don't send an engineer. You need some skilled marketing, sales, logistics and communications people and of course management that is willing to listen.