Cable barriers

[KubotaSteve]

They have those cable barriers on I-81 and they may have worked ok, although I've seen tractor trailers get past them. It takes too long to get them repaired and then nothing is there for the next wreck until they get around to repairing the cable. I like the concrete barrier like on 270 going to DC.
I guess all the crazies were out on the road lately. I saw a motorcycle (not the crotch rocket type) pass cars and a tractor trailer by going down between the two lanes. Bad for him it was rush hour and once we got up to speed he wasn't brave enough to do it again, but an Officer of the Law had seen the first stunt and initiated a traffic stop. The guy tried to cut off on an exit but it was too late, the officer was all ready on him!!!!

 

[schmism]

I guess all the crazies were out on the road lately. I saw a motorcycle (not the crotch rocket type) pass cars and a tractor trailer by going down between the two lanes.

called "cuttin lanes" and its legal in CA. I was out there helping a good friend move back from a summer internship and had a guy on a crotch rocket blow past us on the parking lot er interstate at about 40. Just a loud buz and a flash past my door, bout scared the **** out of me!

he turned and looked at me with a very distainfull look on his face and said... "ya thats legal out hear"

 

[N80]

I've seen where 18 wheelers have shot right through those cable barriers, but I've seen where they have gone over the cement ones too. Not sure you can do anything about that.

I-77 in SC has a super wide median. I think that is the best prevention of cross over accidents. I-85 and I-26 have very narrow medians in places. The cable barriers have made a tremendous difference in these places.

The worst accident I ever saw was on I-26. I did not see it happen but was among the first to stop. A Ford Taurus had crossed the median (driver fell asleep) and was hit in the passenger door by a Ford Explorer which did not even have time to brake. The passenger seat was shoved all the way through the car and out the back door on the driver side. The driver was uninjured but the passenger was strewn all over the place. I've worked in ERs and seen lots trauma but this one was by far the worst.

A cable barrier would have made a big difference.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm going to attempt to address a number of replies with this one.

First off, we've had a number of styles of concrete barriers on our roads for a number of years. They stop cross overs, but don't stop the wreck from continuing like what I saw Friday. I've seen a couple semi vs. concrete wall wrecks. I'm not sure anything REASONABLE would stop them in their tracks. I did see the aftermath of a semi vs. cable barrier wreck. It was a mess, but no worse than any other method. The semi DIDN'T go through the cables either.

Kentucky's Transportation Cabinet did something totally out of character. They did something SMART. The contractor who installed these barriers is responsible for all repairs, which must be made with-in 48 hours, as part of their bid. Maintenance and upkeep is contracted for 6 years from date of completion. With-in 6 years, Kentucky is slated to have several hundred miles of cable barriers in place, along with a dedicated repair crew so that our State Highway Dept. can handle repairs in a timely fashion. The wreck Friday has already been repaired. It took out 6 post's and loosened the cables. There are turnbuckles every 100 yards to adjust the cables, and I understand cost per post replaced is around $400 each. A small price to pay to keep a car from slamming into the front of MY truck, if I do say so.

As a motorcyclist of some 40+ years, I'm not falling for the idea that cables are the danger in high speed bike crashes. High speed bike crashes ARE the danger. The oucome of hitting 3 cables at 75mph isn't much different than smacking a concrete wall or the front bumper of a semi at 75 all facts considered.

I'm one of those "don't believe it 'till I see it" types. What I saw Friday was most convincing. What is a fairly common type of accident and generally a multiple fatality accident was reduced to a wasted car and a shook up driver because of a relatively inexpensive saftey device.

Seems like a no brainer to me. More cables, less funerals.

 

[N80]

The metal guard rails on the outside edges of highways work in a very similar fashion. They have wooden posts for a reason. If the rail is struck from any angle but 90 degrees, the posts snap off or come out of the ground but the rail absorbs the impact and stays intact and on video I've seen it reacts like a big ribbon.

But the cable barriers seem to work better.

 

[whodat90]

I don't believe I said anything about 'high speed crashes' nor did I say that stupid people should be protected from themselves. I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years, and I've had a couple of getoffs. Proper gear has protected me each time. How many motorcyclists do you see each day? Only the ones doing something stupid. You don't see the hundred or more that are ridden by normal, law abiding people at normal speeds. It's human nature. There have been many studies done, and there is much data to support the facts (not opinions, but facts) that cable barriers are cheaper than other systems and that they are deadly to motorcyclists, even in relatively low-speed interactions. If you've got the bandwidth, check out :
http://www.fema.ridersrights.org/crashbarrier2005/crashbarrier2005.PDF
It's almost 8 megs though. If you want more, do a google search on 'motorcycles cable barriers'
Here's one that shows the price difference between cable barriers and other systems:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/eesc/design/policy/Documents/CableBarriersubmittalforTRB.pdf
I'm not going to get into defending all motorcyclists against misconceptions and individual experiences. I'm just going to say that not even real motorcyclists like squids (t-shirt and flip-flop wearing helmetless morans that do 100mph standup wheelies in traffic, etc.) I'm personally of the opinion that darwin's mighty hand will take care of that problem regardless of the amount of protection built into the road. I'm more concerned with the scenario of 'I'm riding along @55mph, and someone changes into my lane pushing me into the barrier' Happens a lot, including to a friend of mine. He hit a concrete barrier and slid; busted up a bit, but still all in one piece.
whodat

Oh yeah, one more point: the biggest problem with cable systems isn't necessarily the cables, it's the support posts. FWJ, what kind of bike do you ride?

 

[N80]

I'm sure you know that just because your friend survived a collision with a concrete barrier does not indicate in any real, practical or statistically significant way that it is safer for a cyclist to hit the concrete than a cable barrier. There are far too many variables at play to draw any conclusions from anecdotal evidence. If you looked long enough you would surely find survivor stories with cable barriers too. And for most of us non-bikers, an accident at 55 mph would be considered high speed. In fact, most collison tests on cars are done at around 40-45 mph.

The point is, there are not going to be a lot of good outcomes when bikers unmount or strike anything at 55, 45 or maybe even 35 mph.

But the simple truth is, cable barriers are not meant to save bikers or even prevent bikers from crossing the median. They are meant to keep cars and light trucks from crossing the median and hitting cars, trucks and bikers on the other side.

When I was in the USAF there was a very gung-ho and gifted med tech who wrecked his bike into a concrete barrier on a crotch rocket. He was seriosly injured and ruined a promising military career (permanent disabilities). The guy on the other bike who also hit the same barrier (they hit a rain slick spot in a curve), was killed instantly. This is not to point out the faults of concrete barriers, its just to point out that wrecking bikes typically more likely to result in serious injury or death than wrecking a car...regardless of what is impacted.

When SC repealled the helmet law (you can ride without one here) one transplant surgeon commented that it was fine with him since there would be a increased supply of fine, healthy 19-25 year old male organs for people who needed them and would be more responsible with them than their previous owners. In other words, heads get squashed but livers, hearts, kidneys etc usually in good shape.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I don't believe I said anything about 'high speed crashes' nor did I say that stupid people should be protected from themselves. I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years, and I've had a couple of getoffs. Proper gear has protected me each time. How many motorcyclists do you see each day? Only the ones doing something stupid. You don't see the hundred or more that are ridden by normal, law abiding people at normal speeds. It's human nature. There have been many studies done, and there is much data to support the facts (not opinions, but facts) that cable barriers are cheaper than other systems and that they are deadly to motorcyclists, even in relatively low-speed interactions. If you've got the bandwidth, check out :
http://www.fema.ridersrights.org/crashbarrier2005/crashbarrier2005.PDF
It's almost 8 megs though. If you want more, do a google search on 'motorcycles cable barriers'
Here's one that shows the price difference between cable barriers and other systems:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/eesc/design/policy/Documents/CableBarriersubmittalforTRB.pdf
I'm not going to get into defending all motorcyclists against misconceptions and individual experiences. I'm just going to say that not even real motorcyclists like squids (t-shirt and flip-flop wearing helmetless morans that do 100mph standup wheelies in traffic, etc.) I'm personally of the opinion that darwin's mighty hand will take care of that problem regardless of the amount of protection built into the road. I'm more concerned with the scenario of 'I'm riding along @55mph, and someone changes into my lane pushing me into the barrier' Happens a lot, including to a friend of mine. He hit a concrete barrier and slid; busted up a bit, but still all in one piece.
whodat

Oh yeah, one more point: the biggest problem with cable systems isn't necessarily the cables, it's the support posts. FWJ, what kind of bike do you ride?

Not a lot of low speed get-offs on interstate highways. Motorcycles account for less than 1/2 of 1% of passenger miles on interstates. They aren't a primary concern in the grand scheme of things. You accept that when you throw a leg over your bike and head of on the highway. Doubtfull we'll ever see a bike friendly highway divider. The best we can hope for is no ones Buick hitting us head on in a cross-over wreck.

I've read reports skewed to both pro-bike and anti-bike mindsets regarding highway saftey. But as with all too many things in life, it's all about the dollars. Highway saftey is a matter of juggling the bucks to protect the most people with the dollars available. If there was an infinate budget, I'm quite sure someone would come up with a plan to protect us all from ourselves and each other. The budget has its limits. So we get what serves the vast majority. I've rode bikes since I got my license (in 1965) I've been ran off the road, laid 'em down in gravel, hit a few slick spots and scared the bejesus out of myself. Even hit from behind while sitting at a traffic light. (Slow speed. No injury, but much damage to a new bike) It's part of the "fun". It's our choice.

Current ride is a '96 Harley Springer Softtail with a BUNCH of expensive chrome courtesy of original owner.

 

[dmccarty]

...Kentucky's Transportation Cabinet did something totally out of character. They did something SMART. The contractor who installed these barriers is responsible for all repairs, which must be made with-in 48 hours, as part of their bid. Maintenance and upkeep is contracted for 6 years from date of completion. With-in 6 years, Kentucky is slated to have several hundred miles of cable barriers in place, along with a dedicated repair crew so that our State Highway Dept. can handle repairs in a timely fashion. The wreck Friday has already been repaired. It took out 6 post's and loosened the cables....

Wow. That is impressive. NC has been putting up the cable barriers and they have stopped some accidents from getting worse. BUT our DOT was taking a long time to fix the barriers. The long delay in fixing the barriers has supposedly been fixed. But someone had to die first. There was a crossover accident where the cable system was installed but it was down due to a previous accident...

Later,
Dan

 

[shane]

FarmW/Junk, common sense ain't so common these days, but I believe you got some. I like the way you think.