Cable laying conundrum....

[joshuabardwell]

Cat5 is speced at 328 feet. It will work out to 1000 with slow speeds.

No, no, no. For goodness sake, if you are burying cable, don't mess around. If you need to go 1000 feet with Ethernet, put in fiber. You can get a fiber to Ethernet transceiver pair for about $200, and direct burial cable is about $2 a foot. You don't want to be digging that stuff up in a year when it doesn't work right because you exceeded the operational specs of the technology.

 

[Deerherd]

Ok, I thought this was a diy project. Good luck, hope it's not too hot.

They gave me two quotes. One with me burying the cable and one with them. At a savings of $4 a foot ($6600) I am going to bury the cable from the pole to where the mid-way "box" is and from there to the house. They hook up at the pole, box and house and supply the appropriate cable.

I'm getting a muffler shop to bend up a smaller diameter pipe and flare the top end to make a new tube and fabricate one for a Fred Cain ripper that's on the way. Then paint the whole thing orange. I just got a new tractor and I'm GOING to use it to put the cable in the ground! LOL!

They talk about burying cable in this video about the sub soiler if anyone is interested. Fred Cain Tractor 3 Point Hitch Subsoiler S-2

Here is the link to the item I already purchased for those that asked. It's $79 bucks plus shipping. 3 Point Pipelayer Fits Asc 73410

 

[tcartwri]

I just got a new tractor and I'm GOING to use it to put the cable in the ground! LOL!

I hear ya! :cool2:

 

[MikeInEburg]

That said, there is no real benefit to burying cat5 vs cat3.

What?! Clarify please.

Generally speaking, when you get to distances required by the OP (1650 feet), you are simply extending telco services from the road to the house. Telco's cables down the street are all POTS (plain old telephone service) cables, not "Cat anything". Plus the fact that, when comparing a linear foot of PE89 direct burial POTS cable vs a similar length of Cat6 - once you untwist the twists on cat6, it will be approximately 20% longer - hence will have 20% more attenuation. If you're on the distance edge for DSL service (generally 15,000 cable feet), that extra 20% can put you over the edge. And it doesn't get you any benefit. The dirty secret in the industry is that most benefits to using cat6 come from the pens of the marketing folks. Granted, there are some instances where catX may be better than POTS - such as using an Ethernet Extender between two buildings on your property. But this is rare. Like an earlier poster suggested, in an "on campus" situation, optical fiber would be a much better solution as it is lightning-proof (ahhhh.... it just rolls off the tongue).

So, if it were "Mike and Mike's money", I'd install PE89 (black jacketed direct burial with goop) inside a 2'' PVC along with the .500 or .750 coax and a spare inner duct for another pull.

 

[Deerherd]

Generally speaking, when you get to distances required by the OP (1650 feet), you are simply extending telco services from the road to the house. Telco's cables down the street are all POTS (plain old telephone service) cables, not "Cat anything". Plus the fact that, when comparing a linear foot of PE89 direct burial POTS cable vs a similar length of Cat6 - once you untwist the twists on cat6, it will be approximately 20% longer - hence will have 20% more attenuation. If you're on the distance edge for DSL service (generally 15,000 cable feet), that extra 20% can put you over the edge. And it doesn't get you any benefit. The dirty secret in the industry is that most benefits to using cat6 come from the pens of the marketing folks. Granted, there are some instances where catX may be better than POTS - such as using an Ethernet Extender between two buildings on your property. But this is rare. Like an earlier poster suggested, in an "on campus" situation, optical fiber would be a much better solution as it is lightning-proof (ahhhh.... it just rolls off the tongue).

So, if it were "Mike and Mike's money", I'd install PE89 (black jacketed direct burial with goop) inside a 2'' PVC along with the .500 or .750 coax and a spare inner duct for another pull.

Wow, thanks for the replies. I'm going to check on that because I would rather do it right the first time. (Provided I could AFFORD it! LOL!)PLUS I still may get to use that first pipelayer I purchased. And to think I turned it into a drink holder in the man cave. I think there may be a market for "Tractor Implements as Furniture."

 

[Attono]

NOw that's funny right there. I watched that subsoiler video last night and thought of just tack welding a few chain links to the back of it to feed the cable down into the furrow. If you welded links every few inches, you could then choose just how deep you wanted to run the cable. I also thought that you could hook a Chain Spring Snap Link or a Chain Quick Link to the links you welded on so you could detach the cable you are laying from the subsoiler if you ran into a rock or something and needed to reposition. Granted you'd have to shovel a little to the new entry point, at least you wouldn't have to cut the cable.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Generally speaking, when you get to distances required by the OP (1650 feet), you are simply extending telco services from the road to the house. Telco's cables down the street are all POTS (plain old telephone service) cables, not "Cat anything".

I see. I thought that might be where you were going, but I wanted to be sure.

And it doesn't get you any benefit.

For phone service, no. For data (Ethernet), cat 5e is usually good enough. All 100 Mbps service and short runs of 1000 Mbps can run over Cat5e. I have seen home wired all with Cat5e (including the telephone) just because it was simpler than using two different types of cable to pull data and phone to the same jack.

 

[joshuabardwell]

So, FWIW, since you're talking about POTS and not Ethernet service (and, duh, of course you are), cancel everything I said about fiber. Just pull whatever the phone company says to pull (and it sounds like Mike knows what he's talking about) and leave it at that.

 

[Deerherd]

Not sure what POTS is but this is Time Warner Cable and it's Internet, Cable and phone all-in-one service if that makes a difference. Thanks again.

 

[Baby Grand]

Wow, thanks for the replies. I'm going to check on that because I would rather do it right the first time. (Provided I could AFFORD it! LOL!)PLUS I still may get to use that first pipelayer I purchased. And to think I turned it into a drink holder in the man cave. I think there may be a market for "Tractor Implements as Furniture."

Oh no he di-int!
Deerherd, I think you just earned yourself a huge wad of street cred with that post.
Just passed some coffee thru my nose.

 

[grsthegreat]

Cat5 wire is so reasonably priced that i run it for all my telephone and internet applications in new construction. I dont even bother with Cat3 anymore.

As for Cat6... i agree its all a bunch of hoopla. I have actually seen existing computer ethernet systems ( in commercial buildings) run using old Cat3 wires, and they run just fine.

These tech guys are so over the edge with their clean power and Cat6 wires, it drives me crazy at times.

 

[Qapla]

Our cable run is a little over 800' from the road. They have fiber running down the road then tap the coax for the drops to the houses.

When the cable company first put it in they used the heavier cable not the smaller one like runs into the home. It was "fine" when all it was doing was providing Cable TV. When they added Internet they said we were "just barely" able to get enough signal for the Internet. When they went to digital and on-demand service with the cable and higher Internet speeds our cable was unable to provide acceptable service.

They finally came and changed part of the cable to a really large cable (stopped at the pedestal near my Mom's house - about 500' from the road) and ran the larger cable to my house - no amplifier. It works.

The Internet is just fine. However, we still have some issues with the on-demand stuff.

BTW - it was Time Warner the ran the first cable but they "traded" some territory with ComCast and it was ComCast that ran the "improved" cable.

Also, TW never buried their cable. They kept saying someone would come bury it, but after about 5 years we gave up hope. Then ComCast thought it was odd that TW never buried the cable, but they never buried it either. About a year ago is when they came and put in the new cable from from the pedestal to the house because they could no longer fix the old cable and keep us with enough signal. Someone did come and bury the new cable (they used a contractor for this) but he did not bury the cable where it was supposed to run. The CC tech ran enough extra cable to route around where we park. The contractor pulled the excess out and ran the cable right where we park and cut the extra cable off. If it rains enough and the ground gets soft I am sure we will end up with damaged cable once again.

It would have been nice if they would have used fiber to come to the house (and this was suggested by a couple of their repair guys and engineers when they were trying to decide how to fix our problem) but the higher-ups will not OK that - they claim cost is prohibitive.
I keep threatening to get an amplifier (since they will not provide one), but have not had the funds.

 

[Deerherd]

Thanks for everyones replies. I guess the first thing I need to do is call the cable company again and find out if it's fiber optic cable running at the street. They never mentioned running that as an option. It could be it's so cost prohibitive and customers are apt to have a heart attack if told the amount so they leave that option out. I run a business from home and need high speed internet to maintain my web site so if I need to......

The guy from Time Warner has been on site and said their quote would meet my needs. But until it's in and working I'm not so sure and if spending a little more now will future proof me sooner than later it may be worth the expense. Thanks again.

 

[joshuabardwell]

The guy from Time Warner has been on site and said their quote would meet my needs. But until it's in and working I'm not so sure and if spending a little more now will future proof me sooner than later it may be worth the expense. Thanks again.

Please don't let our comments throw you off. A lot of them (mine, at least) were based on a misunderstanding of what you're actually doing. Bear in mind that cable Internet can easily reach speeds of 16 Mbps (downstream), and new services rolling out can do 60-100 Mbps. Honestly, coaxial cable is an excellent medium for carrying data. If the cable company says they can meet your needs, they're probably right.

That being said, when the ground is open, that's the time to put in what you really want. If fiber is an option, that is, hands-down, the most future-proof type of cable. In some markets, Verizon's FiOS service does television, phone, and 100 Mbps Internet service, all over one fiber optic line. But if your carrier doesn't offer fiber service, then it's really no good to you. If you really wanted to future-proof, you could put in a fiber run, but at around $2/ft for direct-burial fiber, it's probably not worth it.

 

[grsthegreat]

don't bet on seeing the FiOS system around very long. Its been a major money pit for Verizon and the customers have been dropping it like crazy. It is a GREAT system......just cost prohibitive to install and maintain.

 

[zmansmac]

Deerherd, there was an old post from a fellow that used his small CUT to lay some 1 inch poly tubing for his wife's gardens. I couldn't find the thread right now but will post it tomorrow if I can find it since it has some good pictures. He used a middle buster and bought a 2 inch 90 degree electrical conduit elbow (about 10 bucks) and attached it to the middle buster, facing rearward, with a couple of band clamps. He did make an initial pass to bring up any rocks he ran into and then fed the pipe in. He laid several hundred feet of pipe and barely disturbed the surface. I would think this method would work equally as well for you with your cable and you could use a smaller diameter elbow. I ran about 60 feet of 1 inch poly pipe myself using this setup but one of the band clamps broke near the end of the run. I will be laying more pipe this way but will weld a bracket on the elbow so I can clamp it to the middle buster.

JohnZ
B7500

 

[Deerherd]

Thanks for your reply and I'm making one up similar to what you described and as soon as it's done I will post some pictures. I picked up a sub soiler at tractor supply for $179 and some 2" angle iron for about $20. The angle iron is being welded into an "L" shape with the long end of the "L" being welded to the subsoiler shank at the point of the angle iron, making a V behind the subsoiler. The short leg of the "L" will support the last 4-6" of pipe that will be at the bottom of the trench. I am getting a muffler shop to bend a piece of 2" pipe to fit into this "L" bracket and flare the top so the cable doesn't get snagged when feeding it in. Some primer and a couple coats of orange paint and it should be good to go. Hopefully it will be done this week.

Thanks for everyone help and I did check with the cable company and there is no fiber optic possibillity in the near future.

 

[Deerherd]

Here it is with the primer, I should have it painted with the proper color orange in a day or so. Hopefully I will try it in the next week or two and I'll let you know how it works.

 

[SJBill]

Since you're talking about a cable company (Comcast or TWC, or any other for that matter) it won't be fiber or cat5 to your house, it will be coaxial cable. Depending on the contractor and the run length (from the drop to your house) the cable will likely be RG-11. If the run is short enough, they may use RG-6. Cable companies have plenty of fiber, but it all ends at a nearby "node", not at your home. The nodes are where the fiber signal is converted back into RF onto coax copper. Signal works like this:

Cable Head End Equipment produces RF signals on copper --Combiners join individual channels of RF signal onto one cable --> RF converted to Light ---> distribution to the local plant ---> Local Node converts light back to RF signal --> onto local (neigborhood / apt. building, etc.) RF plant --> Your house.