California Drought

[coldsteelva]

There should be no witch hunt. No single person is responsible for this failure. An institutional apathy is to blame. Infrastructure ages and weakens, concrete is not forever; just like we're learning from our nation's 'structurally deficient' bridges, you can't just set them and forget them.

No it is not cool to spend $100 million on maintenance of a dam, but how many billions are going to be lost now that that $100 million wasn't spent?

 

[Egon]

Evacuation orders should not be fear mongering. One has to assume there is basis for the evacuation order.

 

[prichard]

If it has been discussed I missed it but is there any concern or issue with the smaller dam between this one and Oroville?

 

[Raspy]

There should be no witch hunt. No single person is responsible for this failure. An institutional apathy is to blame. Infrastructure ages and weakens, concrete is not forever; just like we're learning from our nation's 'structurally deficient' bridges, you can't just set them and forget them.

No it is not cool to spend $100 million on maintenance of a dam, but how many billions are going to be lost now that that $100 million wasn't spent?

They recently inspected the spillway and found a few minor problems. Those were fixed. It seems they had no idea there was a weakness underneath that could allow it to collapse. There is no evidence that they deliberately skimped on maintenance or made some sort of gamble.

The real problem is the design of the emergency spillway. Just speculation here, but I bet they never thought it would be used. If they did, why make it spill onto a dirt slope? The erosion of that dirt is the obvious weak link here.

Another interesting thing about dam safety at several of the dams I've visited lately is the security related to terrorism. Each of the three I know about have big security measures, but no apparent maintenance upgrades. I'm not saying anything about weak maintenance at Oroville, just the fact that there seems to be a different emphasis where I've looked. I see equipment and infrastructure getting noticeably older and weaker, while more fences, tighter visitor rules and tighter security are evident. The pride and celebration of these magnificent structures is fading while fear is increasing.

 

[coldsteelva]

Well said, Raspy. Ever taken the 'old' Hoover dam tour where they would bring you inside and down to the powerhouse? Too many terrorism fears nowadays and things like that can't really be done. When I was in high school we took a field trip/tour of a nuclear power plant.

That stuff doesn't happen any longer.

 

[Raspy]

cold,

Hoover Dam is one of the places I had in mind. When I was a kid I was simply astounded at what I saw in there. A lasting impression I've never forgotten. Now it's all hidden away and they have a sort of shallow circus atmosphere that has nothing to do with the wonders of that place and the fantastic achievement to build it.

As I sit here this morning I have a sample of the transmission cable from there, sitting right here. The first time I visited it was about 55 years ago. The original builders were so impressed with the magnitude of it that they built a star map out of marble pieces that could be found thousands of years from now and put back together to establish a date of it's building. That lump should outlast the pyramids.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I think they are doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt. Glad the emergency spillway has held, and people were able to get out. Dropping rocks in that washout about the best they have available right now. Looks like main spillway hasn't gotten worse any further up.

 

[aczlan]

Picture of the whole area with some good markings of where everything is to give some perspective:

Source: Twitter

Aaron Z

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

You have to wonder if the higher ups might be holding back information to keep a full out pandemic situation from occuring. Thus, a smooth exodus.

Here on the gulf coast, they "over hype" hurricanes to get people to leave early.

 

[turnkey4099]

This dam is 'old' but is completely sound, HOWEVER the dam can only hold back water so long as the water remains below its top. The reason the emergency spillway exists is because there is a larger threat from a dam being overtopped and then failing. The emergency spillway is being used for the first time ever and it is evident that no maintenance or updating to make sure it too was 'sound' was ever done. Additionally, the long period of drought, would have killed off trees, grasses and other stabilizing growth and left the earth weakened along the emergency spillway. Also, the main spillway, which has a gaping hole, thus allowing water to undermine it and erode the area adjacent to the main spillway is also not sound. It seems that no money at all had been spent to study/evaluate/strengthen the main spillway ever. It's only purpose in life is to guide water to the river, but in your time of need, it fails as a result of water that it should have been designed to withstand.

I will never understand how CA does things.

They were removing trees and brush before the emergencyh spillway began flowing. Grass, trees, brush wouldn't stand a chance agains a rapid flow like that anyway, they would be gone in the first half hour. The trees and brush were removed to keep them from washing into the river..