Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[ultrarunner]

Yesterday, I say a New F450 towing a tri-axle gooseneck loaded with a full size 3/4 ton Ford Van, F250 4wd Crew Cab Truck and another F150 Regular Cab Truck.

Looked to me the F450 was having a hard time and was dwarfed by the loaded tri axle. I have no idea if he was legal, but he sure looked overloaded.

The rig was also on 580 in Oakland that forbids Trucks over 9000 lbs. I see the CHP pull over big rigs all the time on 580 in Oakland.

 

[Builder]

Just kidding ya know that
I wonder how come with all these members we have here that no one works for DOT to step in and help us out? Oh-well.
I get a kick about the ( capable of being overweight ) part, we are all capable of all kinds of things and we don't get arrested for that.
Have a great year and good nite
Jim

Because many DOT cops don't know how to interpret the CDL laws, either.
Don't rely on what one by the roadside in a squad car tells you.

BUY and READ the DOT manual.

One commom thing I read on this site over & over is guys ask DOT-related questions and get a LOT of help from members, but with innaccurate answers.

All you need to do is go down to the drivers license center in your town and ask for a DOT CDL manual and what we in PA call a "Truckers Guide". You'll get all the correct answers there.

Your best move is to get a CDL, you just don't know it yet.

 

[Beavis]

Just kidding ya know that
I wonder how come with all these members we have here that no one works for DOT to step in and help us out? Oh-well.
I get a kick about the ( capable of being overweight ) part, we are all capable of all kinds of things and we don't get arrested for that.
Have a great year and good nite
Jim

Please take a look at the following photo, it is a flow chart which answers the question: "Do I need a Commericial Driver's License?"

 

[MrJimi]

Good chart but are they going by sticker gvwr or registered gvwr weight. Big difference
My truck is 17,500 and trailer is 14,000 = CDL
Registered weight of truck 10,000 and trailer is 14,000 = Legal

 

[Builder]

Good chart but are they going by sticker gvwr or registered gvwr weight. Big difference
My truck is 17,500 and trailer is 14,000 = CDL
Registered weight of truck 10,000 and trailer is 14,000 = Legal

Could be whichever is higher!!!!! That's why you need to read your CDL manual and call your state's DOT dept and ask them!!

They're open today!

My understanding is it goes by the REGISTERED weight. That's what you paid for and how you are declaring you'll use your truck.

 

[john_bud]

Going off of what Builder said, Each state is different. So, you really do need to find out. But, caution is needed. I went to the DMV with questions and they gave me this

Sure looks like I need a set of USDOT numbers. In fact every one behind the counter emphatically stated I was REQUIRED to get them. I called the number and they also stated that I needed the USDOT's. BUT - after a 2 1/2 hour visit to the local trooper station, calls to the weigh station where each officer gave different answers and then the trooper had to call the state headquarters -finally an answer backed by reference to the published laws! No USDOT needed for farm plates and farm trailer plates. I even have 2 different pieces of legislation dealing with it to back up my lack of USDOT# and educate the man in blue. Should the need ever come about.

Not the exact deal with your question, but it shows this is no push over topic and even the experts and enforcement officers have a hard time keeping up with the ever changing laws.



Again on your flow chart - it states if the GCWR is over 26,001# and defines GCVR as the sum of GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating -> that's the sticker number -NOT the registered weight for the truck and trailer). You are into CDL area. But as Builder also stated - check with the experts, or just get a CDL.


jb

 

[George2615]

Good chart but are they going by sticker gvwr or registered gvwr weight. Big difference
My truck is 17,500 and trailer is 14,000 = CDL
Registered weight of truck 10,000 and trailer is 14,000 = Legal

Mr Jimi, Does your trailer tag say maximum capacity 14K? In NY state a trailer such as yours with a max capacity of 14K that weighs 3K means you can only haul 11K on that trailer. (the weight of the trailer and load on it). Most trailers are rated this way, the max capacity includes the trailer weight. You must deduct the weight of the trailer from the max cap.

Your truck is 7K plus a max trailer cap. of 14K totals 21K. The last time I had to pull into a weigh station they weighed my truck and trailer. A load such as yours would have been legal here with a regular DL. I have a CDL anyway so I can go above 26K.

 

[MrJimi]

George, my trailer registration does NOT have a max weight or a trailer weight. It has a serial number, tag/license plate number and my name address etc. not even # of axles or color?

 

[sandman2234]

I have a CDL, and am a certified tractor trailer driving instructor in the state of Florida, and I can't tell you the rules either! Durn things just have too many loopholes, and it takes a lawyer to get around the tickets you get when you get stopped by an uninformed officer.
David from jax

 

[George2615]

Mr Jimi, I was inquiring about the trailer itself, not what it is registered for. Does the trailer have a tag that says Maximum Capacity? Mine do and that means the max cap includes the trailer weight which I must subtract to determine my actual load capacity.
I can register a 14K trailer for 7K (and a few guys do to save a buck since trailer registrations are expensive here) but if I put say 8K on a 14K trailer registered for 7K even though the trailer can handle it I would be illegal since I registered it for 7K.
Your registered weight of 10K (truck) and 14K (trailer) totaling 24K would be legal here for use with a regular DL.

 

[Builder]

I have a CDL, and am a certified tractor trailer driving instructor in the state of Florida, and I can't tell you the rules either! Durn things just have too many loopholes, and it takes a lawyer to get around the tickets you get when you get stopped by an uninformed officer.
David from jax

Me, too. I came to this conclusion years ago and just decided to get my CDL and all my paperwork together so I won't have any trouble. Took a little extra time, but worth it in the long run.

 

[MrJimi]

George, my trailer has a little (business card size) MFG metal sticker about weight etc and serial # I will try and show picture of it.. Got it !! just in front of spare and to the right of tongue jack facing front, can you see it?

 

[Builder]

You need to call the manufacturer of the trailer, give them the serial # and find out the rating.

 

[MrJimi]

It says right on the little tag, 14K pounds

 

[George2615]

Yes, I see it. Mine have tags (1 is metal, 1 is a decal) which have the ser. # and maximum cap. As I said I have been told by both trailer mfgs. that I must subtract the trailer weight from the max cap. number to get the actual weight I can haul. Its too dark here to get a pic of mine right now. I think if you call the mfg. they will tell you the same thing I was told.

 

[Builder]

It says right on the little tag, 14K pounds

Oh, I thought you said there was no GVW info.

OK, carry on.

 

[Builder]

Yes, I see it. Mine have tags (1 is metal, 1 is a decal) which have the ser. # and maximum cap. As I said I have been told by both trailer mfgs. that I must subtract the trailer weight from the max cap. number to get the actual weight I can haul. Its too dark here to get a pic of mine right now. I think if you call the mfg. they will tell you the same thing I was told.

Some do and some don't. Usually the number stamped on the metal tag is the GVWR which is the sum total of the empty weight of the trailer + the cargo weight.

So a 14K trailer that weighs 3K has an 11K cargo capacity.

Some bigger trailers will say "10 TON" on a decal on the frame rail meaning they might have a cargo capacity of 20,000lbs + the empty weight of the trailer.

It's all done to confuse owners and make it easier for law enforcement to catch you doing something wrong.

 

[MrJimi]

I feel bad about this thread hijacking, did Gamma, the original poster get his question answered?

 

[George2615]

Builder, I agree, that is how trailers are sold in this part of the country as you said. The total weight of the empty trailer and load = the GVWR Max capacity. I obtained my CDL many years ago so I've never had to worry about this problem. I think Gamma's answer will have to be determined by the state he lives in since apparently other states have different rules.

 

[Beavis]

Good chart but are they going by sticker gvwr or registered gvwr weight. Big difference
My truck is 17,500 and trailer is 14,000 = CDL
Registered weight of truck 10,000 and trailer is 14,000 = Legal

We will enforce according to the GVWR of the vehicle(s), not the registered weight.

*Also, as I stated in my previous post; you would be exempt a CDL if you are operating a vehicle for personal use, fire truck, military vehicle, or farm truck (if the farm truck is being operated within 150 miles of the farm)
**But also, like others have said; the best thing to do is check with your state and have them "show you the law", not "tell you the law" If you are risking a ticket or being placed out of service, you want to know what you're dealing with.