Can't Believe the Difference!

[robison]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

<font color="blue">I find it interesting that MAKERS or "long duration running engines" ( such as Cat and Cummins) tell owners to FORGET syn oils and use the recommended weight and spec oils they recommend and drain at the intervals they recommend and "all is well". Strange they can build and warranty engines for 450-500,000 miles and yet users of autos feel they have to swap out oil every 3K miles...just to get their engines to run 100,000 miles.

I concur. As i posted earlier.. the last oil sample we pulled was on an 80 mack tractor.. with 2+ million miles on it.. at 12000 miles. We were looking for wear metals... specifically.. but the shop dropped the bearings and plastigauged them.. slaped them right back in.. bearing were goo and within acceptable tolerance.

Background.. this truck hauled milk for about 14 years, then went to hauling heavy equipment for us. It's major breakdows include an injector pump, air compressor, and a rear/rear diffy. that it...
Oh yeah.. fina diesel rated sae 30w fleet oil... all it has ever seen with us...

Also.. our cat dealer tells us the same thing.. change the oil at specified intervals.. not extended changes..

Soundguy )</font>

Soundguy, with respect to my earlier post . . .

When you compare cars to heavy trucks you must consider that the typical heavy truck has 5 to 10 times the oil capacity of a car. So the oil does not get "used" as much. If you have 5 quarts in a car, and 50 in a truck, and the truck is run continuously so it does not see a lot of short haul deterioriation there is no surprise hearing the truck has a 30,000 mile service interval compared to 3,000 for the car.

Now, as to extended drain intervals . . . It is important to recognize that I am not advocating extended drain intervals for you or anyone else in my post. Rather, I am pointing out the environmental benefit of such intervals.

That enviromnental benefit is leading European govenments to mandate such intervals, hence the 10-15,000 mile invervals on current BMW and Mercedes cars. Many people here do not know that those type intervals are mandated in Europe for cars.

Responsible MB and BMW service managers do not advocate increasing the interval on these cars. Older models had 5,000 or 7,500 intervals and I do not advocate increasing them because in addition to the differernt oil requirements the engine technology on the new models is considerably different.

<font color="blue"> </font>

 

[kenmac]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

Sully2, if I were only talking about 1 vehicle I could see your point , but I'am talking about all 5 test turning out close to the same the 1 ford pu v8 ,- 1 chevy van, v6 1 dodge v8, 1 mazda 4 cyl ,1 chevy pu v8 oil shows trashed at 3000-3500 mile drains . I have used dino all my life,but when something else came along that was better than the $1.50 per qt. oil I was using I checked it out saw where I could get longer drains & save time & money. Some day the dino will be gone just like the leaded gasoline, then all the nay sayers won't have a choice. Like John said, all the high end cars recomend synthetic oil corvette, dodge, viper bmw, etc, To each his own , but for me it saves me real money & time . Do the math for yourself the savings are there if you do long drains & get better protection. Chris , I talked to the service man at the local cat dealer this am ,and he told me that the owners of this large equipment take oil samples every so many hours & send in for oil test. What they learn from the test, they send to cat so cat make adjustments to the additives in the cat oil . He tells me this is an ongoing process of changing the oil adds. in the cat oil.

 

[Sully2]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

Ive got ya! We're on the same page here I believe. Now..my question would have to be..was it BECAUSE it was "dino oil" or was it because it was "Pennzoil"?? Ive never run Pennzoil..ever.. Been a Castrol user for a long long time. Never had but one bit of trouble..( cam lobe wore out on a V6 Chev van) at 160 K miles...but when the cam was checked..ALL the lobes were soft to start with..??

I dont worry over the "enviromental issues" one iota...because you will NEVER seen the demise of "dino" oil. You WILL see the time come though that "waste oil" will be re-refined as a REQUIREMENT and not allowed to be "consumed". Many "govt agencies" presently REQUIRE the use of re-refined oil at present! Its more $$ that "fresh oil" but a LOT less $$ that syn's are.

But if you are using that brand in ALL vehicles..and the oil shows up "shot" at approx 3K miles..( again in all vehicles) my first look-see would be to the oil ( quality)??

If Syn oils solved your problems..all well and good..thats the goal of you changing...but..me personally..Id want to know just what the problem REALLY WAS..??

 

[_RaT_]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

Interesting. I know that they are starting to use some synthetics in the domestic trucks. I know Ford now uses synthetic in the rear axle. Great info Robison.

 

[kenmac]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

The problem is that the pensoil & exxon & I forgot one I tried supertech a group 3 synthetic oils had low add. #s to begin with. There will come a day when there will be no more dino oil . I never thought leaded gas wouldn't go , computers on cars . some of the new chevy trucks has to have the computer reset when the oil is changed. I can see the day when you will have to take your vehicle to the dealer for an oil change . This or no more dino is comming, because alot of people still dump their old oil on the ground instead of having it recycled.

 

[Sully2]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

I seeee!!! Oh well...Im gone!!!

 

[bugstruck]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

We all do understand that more than a few experts in this field say that in a dino oil, the only thing doing the actual lubrication is the base oil itself, not the additives? They also say, and I'm inclined to believe them, that the additives are for reducing the foaming (air entrainment), reducing varnish and deposits, etc. Basically the additives are trying to stop the oxidation/degradation of the oil, which causes it to do the bad things. So a certain limited amount of additives are good as they extend the life of a dino. From the very jumpstart though, they (when considered in total) reduce the dino oils ability to lubricate, with a very few possible exceptions that modify the film to some benefit under certain limited conditions. So additives themselves are generally not lubricants, according to these opinions. Now don't make me go dig this up. I just know a number of the online oil sites make this claim or pretty close to it.

So answer the synthetic skeptic this. What is the lubricant in a synthetic? And what really chemically sets it apart from a dino. All man-made? From what? A bunch of chemical concoctions or, oh my, I should hope not, a blend of those non-lubricating additives?

Now, I just went over the top with the last bit to make a point and maybe even lend a sense of moderation to this oft overblown fluids debate. What are they actually doing in the process of making a synthetic that is so incredibly different than a dino with additives? I guess 40 or 70%, perhaps more, of what goes into the base on a synthetic is simple oils or natural lubrication materials processed and refined. Maybe even a good number of concoctions derived from, or formulated with, something originating from (divine creator forbid) a dinosaur, perhaps a soybean, etc.. Every single man-made product, save a very limited life-bearing few (Man just modified them too), is refined to a higher state from something, or a group of somethings mixed together, that started in nature, including dino oils AND the SYNTHETICS. So now we refine these natrual products to another state using different methods and label it "Synthetic" and slop it in our minds as if a Martian dropped it off, or a superior Man species just blinked it into existence, and debate for hours over which one is the better. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif They all are products driven to do the same thing, lubricate. Dino with additives is intended to last longer than plain oil without. Synthetic is refined from it's esoteric (but I guarantee once natural) origins, to last a few moments longer and perhaps lubricate a little better. Am I missing something? It's all Earth origin stuff!! Dead dinos, dead soybeans, inert elements; it's all from the ground guys, refined chemically in one way or another, and it's all modified by Man to his benefit, or so we hope. Not quite as unique as it is portrayed. Synthetic is just another newer type lubricant, even if we label and classify it differently for purposes way beyond differentiating the refinement methods. Marketing certainly comes to mind.

I like Cudas and think Cobras stink. Really do... and willing to debate it. For a moment, for the entertainment value, tongue in cheek. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[_RaT_]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

Now hold on, my understanding is that synthetics come from another planet that is not carbon based. I think this is where the confusion lay. On episode star date 5907 in the Star Trek series, berrilyum crystals were mined to make the co-plymers for the esters used as base stock in most of todays better synthetics.

 

[JerryG]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

Very well said. I completely agreed with you until <font color="blue">I like Cudas and think Cobras stink. </font> /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[kenmac]

Re: Can\'t Believe the Difference!

Good synthetics group 4 use a good base stock . Amsoil uses ployaphaolefin or(pao) as a base stock with a small amount of ester . Where's skypup ? He's been doing this longer than I have.Any way, that's the primary base stock of a good syn. lubricant. Using soy would make it cheaper /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif