Carbide chainsaw chains

[crazyal]

To me the biggest problem is that they stretch at the same rate as any other chain. I'm not a fan of sharpening a chain but I hate throwing out a chain that's stretched too far while the cutters are still good. I can see if you are cutting stuff that requires sharpening all the time. I would suggest maybe trying a Timerline sharpener as an alternate to going carbide. I don't have one but they look like a step up from a file for sharpening in the field.

 

[Doofy]

The Timberline Sharpener appears well made and sturdy and would certainty enhance my sharpening skills. Over time, my angle wanders off a little and my cuts become crooked. I may just try one.

 

[ArlyA]

Speaking of chain sharpening. Because we do trail clearing, we commonly cut next to the dirt and dull that side of the chain more often. Yes we sharpen both sides, but the ground side always gets more steel taken off, so a after a few redoes by me, it goes back to the pro's who even the left/right them back up and also makes the tooth angles correct again. But as I understand tooth grinding, carbide is a much harder material to grind and sharpen. Does the common chain sharpening tools work or last very long doing carbide??? Small minds like to know.

The Timberline Sharpener appears well made and sturdy and would certainty enhance my sharpening skills. Over time, my angle wanders off a little and my cuts become crooked. I may just try one.

 

[Doofy]

From what I've read, the carbide chain is "polished" with a diamond wheel.

 

[the old grind]

Carbide chips too easily. I can buy decent import diamond wheels for half what I pay for any CBN wheels, and barely twice what vitreous cost. Power sharpeners require a bit of technique or you compromise tooth rake on the upstroke, a most common oversight that causes people to buy expensive vs HFT chain sharpeners and go back to filing w/o proper guidance on the machine. 'Stretch' can be dealt with by having the shop take out a link, but many refuse to because it's not so good for sprockets.

A Journeyman can do good work on a ragged-out machine. A rookie will blame the equipment and defend his untrained process. Most guys go too long between sharpening, and I often have to peel half the teeth's useful length to bring 'em up sharp. Use a dial or digital caliper to compare R-L tooth length to maintain an even grind on both sides of the chain and a straight cut.

I grind depth gauges (aka 'rakers') almost completely away. Our saws don't 'kick back', but one can stall a 16" bar in a 15" dia log with my 'race' grind. I sharpen anything and everything you guys bring me at no charge. Do ya wish you lived closer? (.. well, I do!)

Doofy, what many call 'polish' we call 'lapping' in the trade. We use a special diamond grit paste (for carbide) and a proprietary 'smooth' wheel. That smooth, shiny finish means a lot of 'hits' between tool changes on a production line, but offers much less advantage when cutting wood. t o g

 

[Doofy]

Good info, old grind. Not sure why I get off on these tangents. I have 10-15 sharpened chains hanging up and ready and I get interested in carbide. In actuality, I'm so fat and stove up that I probably won't be cutting anything. The mind is strong but the body is weak. Good thing the Wife likes chainsaws and wood cutting.

 

[PILOON]

I touch up my blade every 2nd tanking.
Only one stroke per tooth and that makes all the difference, chips really fly!
If I clip a stone then back at my shop I clamp the blade in my vice and even things up.
Occasionally I cut back the rakers for better chips.
Another thing I like to do is store spare chains well oiled or even in a jug with oil. Also dressing the cutting bar from time to time is a wise thing to do.

 

[ArlyA]

What type of "cutting blade" are you speaking of piltoon?

I touch up my blade every 2nd tanking.
.

 

[Oldpath05]

Is Stihl the only carbide saw chain........ Looks like a good chain for cutting in swamps.

 

[Johnv656]

Carbide chips too easily. I can buy decent import diamond wheels for half what I pay for any CBN wheels, and barely twice what vitreous cost. Power sharpeners require a bit of technique or you compromise tooth rake on the upstroke, a most common oversight that causes people to buy expensive vs HFT chain sharpeners and go back to filing w/o proper guidance on the machine. 'Stretch' can be dealt with by having the shop take out a link, but many refuse to because it's not so good for sprockets.

A Journeyman can do good work on a ragged-out machine. A rookie will blame the equipment and defend his untrained process. Most guys go too long between sharpening, and I often have to peel half the teeth's useful length to bring 'em up sharp. Use a dial or digital caliper to compare R-L tooth length to maintain an even grind on both sides of the chain and a straight cut.

I grind depth gauges (aka 'rakers') almost completely away. Our saws don't 'kick back', but one can stall a 16" bar in a 15" dia log with my 'race' grind. I sharpen anything and everything you guys bring me at no charge. Do ya wish you lived closer? (.. well, I do!)

Doofy, what many call 'polish' we call 'lapping' in the trade. We use a special diamond grit paste (for carbide) and a proprietary 'smooth' wheel. That smooth, shiny finish means a lot of 'hits' between tool changes on a production line, but offers much less advantage when cutting wood. t o g

Where you at in Mid Michigan area, I sharpen my own chains but would like to see how you sharpen yours.

 

[ArlyA]

Rakes are an important safety component of chains to reduce kick-back. I'll keep them on all the chains we have, (have more than a dozen) but will be knocking down the rakes, as called for by wear.

 

[the old grind]

Where you at in Mid Michigan area, I sharpen my own chains but would like to see how you sharpen yours.

I'm close enough to I-75 and I-69 to visit just about any member in Southern lower MI at the drop of a hat, and I sharpen anything I can get my hands on. ("hard work dispels worry" Maggie to Doris) My few little tricks get very good results from the cheapest HFT sharpener by using its weakness (hardly rigid) to best advantage.

Briefly, use the flex of the machine to bring the wheel down in a j-like stroke. Hold it to the right as you come down, then wiggle it to the left as 'tap' the wheel against the tooth face. "tap, tap, tap" then hold the wheel again to the right of its 'give' so as not to contact the tooth at all on the upstroke. If failing that last bit your rake angle would match the upstroke path (sloppy if a worn or cheapo machine, so vital) vs the intended angle. Smooth contact of wheel to work was never important enough to matter.

The chains I do are for guys that buck 12" dia ash 'leaners' (post ash-borer death) with 16' saws, so 'rakers' (aka depth gages) are removed to try to teach the guys to use the saws as saws and not like grinders. Full RPM will cause the chain to skip, limit 'peel' per tooth, and cause unnecessary wear. "feeds and speeds" for all materials. When ~1/3 of your chips are more like sawdust, you should have rotated to a sharp chain already.

Set up: With motor off, adjust the wheel to correct depth of the gullet. Adjust the stop so that as you rotate the wheel by hand the high spot of the 'wobble' just touches the tooth. This'll get you .010" or more peel when powered up. I use a dial caliper to monitor tooth length, so as to balance L to R height and strive for the straightest cut. I'd have posted youtube videos of just such things (machine shop tricks) but not enough folks trust the quality of pro bono work and I'm doing other chores while waiting for more work and movie production help.

I suggest a post-sharpen rinsing in kero and 'drip drying' of chains to minimize swarf (grit, detritus, etc) causing wear to the bar. If/as the wheel gets rounded on one side, just flip it over to use the sharper corner to keep rake going nearest to full gullet depth.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm close enough to I-75 and I-69 to visit just about any member in Southern lower MI at the drop of a hat, and I sharpen anything I can get my hands on. ("hard work dispels worry" Maggie to Doris) My few little tricks get very good results from the cheapest HFT sharpener by using its weakness (hardly rigid) to best advantage.

Briefly, use the flex of the machine to bring the wheel down in a j-like stroke. Hold it to the right as you come down, then wiggle it to the left as 'tap' the wheel against the tooth face. "tap, tap, tap" then hold the wheel again to the right of its 'give' so as not to contact the tooth at all on the upstroke. .....

That's the same way I use my HF sharpener. The j-stroke is a very good analogy. :thumbsup:

 

[Johnv656]

Thanks Old Grind.

Some good tips there. I have what I think is one of the better sharpeners from Baileys. But it does have the slop left to right as you mentioned. Never thought about holding it to the right on the up stroke (will definitely give that a try).

 

[Doofy]

Interesting and welcome advice on those chain sharpening machines. Makes me want to get my el-cheapo out, set up and whirring.

 

[4570Man]

When I got my chain grinder I also put a CBN wheel on it because I didn’t want to deal with half to maintain the profile of the other wheels. It’s supposed to cut cooler and with less burr than the other wheels. My grinder also had some runout on the arbor. This isn’t a good thing. It makes the wheel cut more aggressive and less smooth. It would probably lead uneven wear on the wheel. Using a dial indicator and some brass shim stock I got the runout pretty much eliminated. I also use the flexing the head into the tooth approach. But taking off 10 thousands on the down approach is too much. I set mine so the wheel barley touches the teeth and then flex it into the teeth.

 

[the old grind]

.. I also use the flexing the head into the tooth approach. But taking off 10 thousands on the down approach is too much. I set mine so the wheel barely touches the teeth and then flex it into the teeth.

Absolutely, it's important to see that there is no contact on either the up or down stroke. If a 'so-so' wheel wobbles, it's then we'd barely touch the high spot with the power-off-finger-feel stop adjust & see the .0x0" peel according to the feel (my 'taps' to minimize heating) at the bottom of the J.

Guys, I may go around a chain 3-4 times per adjustment of the stop. It's done to ('spark-out') best imitate the finish that 4570Man's CBN wheel surely leaves. And yes, vs our vitreous wheels with paper 'blotters' the resin bonded wheel is indeed best trued on its spindle. (CBN 2x $ as diamond)

 

[4570Man]

I checked the wheel for wobble because I was going to send it back if it was wobbling. The runout was in the grinder arbor. I thought about trading it but I didn’t figure the replacement would be any better. I know the grind results were a lot better after shimmed the wheel and got it running true. BTW cbn is for HSS and diamond is for carbide. They’re not interchangeable abrasives. I know this is the carbide chain thread but I don’t own one of those and everything in my posts is based on a regular chain.