Caroni Flail Belt Failure

[IslandTractor]

Has anyone had experience with the Kevlar belts over Gates B43? Being new to the Caroni flail mower, I'm a bit confused over which replacement belts to have on hand? Thanks.

Gates Kevlar size B43 are the replacement belts most of us use. They last at least 2-3 times as long as the factory belts.

 

[JayRm]

I think my confusion stemmed from not finding anything listed as a Gates Kevlar B43 - just a Gates B43. I can't find anything that is described as being Kevlar. Thank you.

 

[McCulley Heights]

So my original belts on my TM1900 lasted no more than 15 hours. I got some Gates B43 belts as replacements, but before I put them on, I'd like to get some opinions about the tension the original belts were set at, if they were adjusted too tight at the factory, and how the clean up the belt residual on the roller.

BUT, I can't figure out how to post pics. Can anyone tell me what I need to do in order to post pics?

Thanks.

 

[leonz]

So my original belts on my TM1900 lasted no more than 15 hours. I got some Gates B43 belts as replacements, but before I put them on, I'd like to get some opinions about the tension the original belts were set at, if they were adjusted too tight at the factory, and how the clean up the belt residual on the roller.

BUT, I can't figure out how to post pics. Can anyone tell me what I need to do in order to post pics?

Thanks.

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Hello Mculley Heights,


I want to welcome you as the newest resident member of the "Flail Mower Nations".


The issue with posting the pictures is something I cannot help you with as I have a
flip phone and I post them that way with the chip in my digital camera.

NOW as to your flail mower;

Are the B 43 V belts the green kevlar belts??? The other thing that you must do it this;

Each B43 V belt MUST and I repeat MUST come from the same lot number which
is melted into the V belt carcass on the top of the V belt. They have to have the same lot number as each lot number has a single batch of nylon which is woven into the carcass of the V belt in question and the same goes for the Kevlar V belts which are shock resistant.

Before you do anything else I would like to you to purchase a V belt tension gauge as that is the proper way to tension your belts with the snubber pulley on your TM1900.

You can purchase them on amazon and have the gauge in a a couple of days.

If you can tell me more about your mowing conditions that would help a lot as mowing
in reverse using a very low speed in tall brush on the first pass will lessen the load on the drive belts.


NOW as to your issue with cleaning the V belt pulleys. You need to clean the pulleys with Isopropyl Alcohol soaked rags wrapped around the pulleys. The blue Scotts brand shop towels are good for this job. you need to let the alcohol work and then use a small metal wire brush to clean the remaining rubber dust off the pulleys.


I will be back in a couple of minutes and I will return after I get the mail.

 

[leonz]

The Gates 91107 V belt tension gauge is $11.83 with free shipping with orders over $25.00 from amazon.


The kevlar V belts have the Aramid fiber in them and they can either be flat black or green in color.

 

[McCulley Heights]

The Gates 91107 V belt tension gauge is $11.83 with free shipping with orders over $25.00 from amazon.


The kevlar V belts have the Aramid fiber in them and they can either be flat black or green in color.

Did I get the wrong belts? I got Gates Hi-Power II B43 belts.

I'm not mowing any tall grass (<1ft) or brush. Mowing in 1 low, and based on the speed chart, that's between 0.5-1.75 mph. I think my issue is more the roller on the tensioner. It appears pitted.

 

[leonz]

Hello McCulley Heights

what is you cutting height? Are you mowing with the 540 RPM PTO engine speed ??????

Is the snubber pulley free spinning???? it should spin freely with no difficulty.

Did you grease the snubber pulley grease fitting?



You have the right belts, The new belts should not flex more than an 1/8 of an inch when properly tensioned with the snubber pulley.


The spring arm attached to the snubber does all the work to tension the V-belts. Just be sure to have the flat side of the three belts against the snubber pulley making sure the snubber pulley is on the outside of the 3 V-belts.

 

[McCulley Heights]

Hello McCulley Heights


Are you mowing with the 540 RPM PTO engine speed ??????

Is the snubber pulley free spinning???? it should spin freely with no difficulty.





You have the right belts, The new belts should not flex more than an 1/8 of an inch when properly tensioned with the snubber pulley.

Leonz,

Yes to both questions. I greased everything and checked to see if everything was moving freely before hooking it up to tractor.

 

[leonz]

The only thing left to do is install the new V belts after you clean the pulleys with alcohol and a small metal wire brush and then run it with no load for ten minutes after you start at idle and then mow as the factory belts have had a habit of dying in a very short time. The spring tensioned idler snubber pulley would not cause a failure like that unless the bearings were shot.

 

[DoubleDeere]

McCulley Heights, You might want to go over to the let's talk flail mowers thread and read posts 4816 thru 4868 (pg.482-pg.487). Member Houser52 tried one size shorter belt on his Caroni last year. There are some links to PDF's & some photos in a couple of the posts that help explain idler pulleys and issues they can cause. I have not been on here in a long time so not sure how it worked out for him, hopefully he might chime in to let you know.

Re: Let's talk flail mowers

I got in some 45 kevlar belts to try. They were really no harder to get on the pulleys than the 46 belts but after installed they were tighter than the 46 belt. They may be tight enough that the idler pulley might not have to be used but I adjusted it to where the belts can be deflected slightly with my thumb, probably less than 1/2 There is definitely less belt contact on the idler compared to the 46 belts. Hopefully there will be less friction and less heat build up on the pulleys
I had already mowed everything so I did not ave any high grass to try it out on but I did mow a couple patches that had grown some since last week. So far so good.

 

[houser52]

This is houser52 with a belt update.

I'm still using the 45" kevlar belts that I installed last year. They weren't Gates belts but I can't remember which brand they were off the top of my head. All I can remember is that they were not that expensive.

I've mowed a lot since installing them which included some pretty big/thick weeds and grass. Checked those belts last week after mowing about 10-12 acres of pasture and they look as good as when I installed them last year. No glazing or discoloring anywhere that I could find.

 

[McCulley Heights]

Did I get the wrong belts? I got Gates Hi-Power II B43 belts.

I'm not mowing any tall grass (<1ft) or brush. Mowing in 1 low, and based on the speed chart, that's between 0.5-1.75 mph. I think my issue is more the roller on the tensioner. It appears pitted.

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my questions.

I was questioning if I got the right belts pertaining to if I got the kevlar belts. The packaging of the Gates Hi-Power II B43 belts doesn't mention kevlar anywhere on them and I don't see any mention of kevlar on the specs. when I try to search for them online. Gates website says they're flex bonded cords.

I've been mowing the grass to about 4-5 inches high. The roller and skids are set at the second lowest setting. It has been leaving some v grooves in the grass. Maybe that has contributed to the belt wear.

 

[leonz]

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my questions.

I was questioning if I got the right belts pertaining to if I got the kevlar belts. The packaging of the Gates Hi-Power II B43 belts doesn't mention kevlar anywhere on them and I don't see any mention of kevlar on the specs. when I try to search for them online. Gates website says they're flex bonded cords.
I've been mowing the grass to about 4-5 inches high. The roller and skids are set at the second lowest setting. It has been leaving some v grooves in the grass. Maybe that has contributed to the belt wear.

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You have the right V belts, The factory supplied belts have failed prematurely for some of the caroni flail mower users.

You need to make sure the mower is level adjusting it with the top link and making sure the lower links do not sink by gravity by closing the needle valve under the seat or locking the draft control handle with the locking knob if it has that method of securing the draft control position.

 

[hunt4570]

Well I just got in this conversation, I've had my Caroni TM1900 for about 4 years now. Just cooked my belts for the first time and need to replace. Amazon has them for $10.51 each (gates B43 High power). I see no reference to Kevlar, nor anyway to order a set of 3 with the same lot#. Still good to go?

 

[Reg]

I got my Caroni mower soon after this thread started.
It had fair use for a while but fell idle maybe 7 years ago.
I got it fired up this Spring and it lasted until the first HARD GOING spot, I probably heard belt squeal and smelled burning,,, anyway it stopped with one burned through and two flipped off the pulleys due to bit of the broken one.

OK, no problem they had served well and had been neglected.
I got generic auto belts from Rock auto, I was in no hurry so the freight delay didn't bother me.
They fit fine and have been working well since.

B43 ? I think so.

 

[Reg]

======================================================================



You have the right V belts, The factory supplied belts have failed prematurely for some of the caroni flail mower users.

You need to make sure the mower is level adjusting it with the top link and making sure the lower links do not sink by gravity by closing the needle valve under the seat or locking the draft control handle with the locking knob if it has that method of securing the draft control position.

A point on that;
SOME hydraulic top links don't extend far enough (on SOME tractors, despite the "standardization" of the 3 pt spec) and even if they do they can leak down a bit after a few hours of mowing.
I prefer to use a hard top link in the slot so that it "rides" minor undulations - and to adjust my cutting height with the position control.

 

[leonz]

Well I just got in this conversation, I've had my Caroni TM1900 for about 4 years now. Just cooked my belts for the first time and need to replace. Amazon has them for $10.51 each (gates B43 High power). I see no reference to Kevlar, nor anyway to order a set of 3 with the same lot#. Still good to go?

=======================================================================================


Hello and good morning hunt4570,

If they cannot ship these V belts with the same lot number all bets are off.
Usually they-being amazon also provide the name of the reseller that will ship
the belts to you and could ask to be sure that they send you V belts with the
same lot number.

As long as you follow exactly how they need to be adjusted WHEN COLD and
do not drive too fast when mowing deep thick brush
("meaning you hear a vacuum cleaner within ten feet of you") you will be fine.

I would strongly suggest that you invest in a Gates V belt tension gauge
and follow the instructions for the B43 V belts for the break in period and
and in so doing you will have a very handy essentially indispensable
tool to use when adjusting the V belts.


They are available from amazon; Gates V belt Tension Tester model #91107 $11.87 + tax and freight

The folks at rock auto have them for 8.88 +tax and freight. It cannot hurt to see how the rock auto price for
the Gates B43 belts compares to the amazon price as long as you are looking and you can always ask to them
to be sure the three V belts have the same lot number.

Happy mowing.

 

[Reg]

The lot number is NOT an issue.
Gates B43 is Gates B43 is Gates B43 - - what day or shift they were made on or at which plant is of no concern, they are consistent.
There is no need for "matched sets" here, this is just a 3 belt pulley as have been used for well over a hundred years.

 

[hunt4570]

The lot number is NOT an issue.
Gates B43 is Gates B43 is Gates B43 - - what day or shift they were made on or at which plant is of no concern, they are consistent.
There is no need for "matched sets" here, this is just a 3 belt pulley as have been used for well over a hundred years.

Yeah kinda my thoughts as well, I ordered three and they should be here Friday. Heck the stock ones that came with the mower lasted about 4 years and maybe 10-20 hours a year.. I think I'll be fine. If these last that long and only cost 33 bucks to replace I'll be fine and dandy with the whole thing!

 

[hunt4570]

=======================================================================================


Hello and good morning hunt4570,

If they cannot ship these V belts with the same lot number all bets are off.
Usually they-being amazon also provide the name of the reseller that will ship
the belts to you and could ask to be sure that they send you V belts with the
same lot number.

As long as you follow exactly how they need to be adjusted WHEN COLD and
do not drive too fast when mowing deep thick brush
("meaning you hear a vacuum cleaner within ten feet of you") you will be fine.

I would strongly suggest that you invest in a Gates V belt tension gauge
and follow the instructions for the B43 V belts for the break in period and
and in so doing you will have a very handy essentially indispensable
tool to use when adjusting the V belts.


They are available from amazon; Gates V belt Tension Tester model #91107 $11.87 + tax and freight

The folks at rock auto have them for 8.88 +tax and freight. It cannot hurt to see how the rock auto price for
the Gates B43 belts compares to the amazon price as long as you are looking and you can always ask to them
to be sure the three V belts have the same lot number.

Happy mowing.

I'm thinking QC should be good enough with these belts. Its not like buying ammo or something, lot numbers are a bit more important there but anymore I load my own so it doesn't matter anyway on accuracy rounds. ANYWAY, I ordered three belts, should be here Friday , haven't looked at my Caroni manual yet to see what they say about changing them but it is just 3 belts on three pulleys with a common tensioner.. how complicated can it be?
I do have a belt tension checker, not sure it will work on this application but it does fine on my Harley and my sawmill!