Caroni Flail Belt Failure

[Reg]

Ooops, on re-reading that I realize that I didn't tell it the way the jam happened.
In FACT I had stopped the tractor, shifted to PTO neutral, the mower spun down, I turned the tractor off.
I did some top link adjustment (hydraulic cylinder is off right now) and more belt checking.
It was when I next engaged the PTO that the tractor stalled.

Initially I didn't connect the fact that it had been running free and was raised when I stopped it, but jammed almost instantly when I next engaged the PTO. So I wasn't looking for a mechanical jam.

I don't have any temperature readings and since I didn't do any "before" measurements any "after" measurements would probably not be valuable.

I havn't done ANY calcns on this.
Right now I'm thinking that same tension force equals same tension force and with the same coefficient of friction the grip should be the same, regardless of wrap length or area.
My intuit says otherwise and it does seem to work well.
The cover is still off, I have only mowed short test strips.
Not clear when I'll get back to mowing for multiple hours on end, but when I do it will be with the cover on and I'll try to remember to do the "does it boil spit ?" test every 1/2 hour or so.

 

[Brahmus]

Alright, it's mowing season again, did anything ever come of this?

 

[IslandTractor]

Alright, it's mowing season again, did anything ever come of this?

No problems here. Mower is doing fine as are the belts.

 

[Brahmus]

Did you switch back to the stock spring? She's just a hot one?

 

[IslandTractor]

Did you switch back to the stock spring? She's just a hot one?

I will. I haven't yet because it hasn't made any difference. The stock spring is sitting on my workbench and asks me each time I go in there when I'm going to get off my lazy butt and put it back where it belongs. Next time I pull the cover I'll put the stock spring back on.

For those who don't know what I am talking about, we thought some of the mowers were running hot last year and that the reason might be a weak spring on the tensioning roller. Turns out the temp was identical with either the spring or a solid connection so I'm going back to the stock spring.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I just came in from using my rears for 2hrs. You can hold the pulleys tightly for several seconds. Im guessing 120F or thereabouts. No idler on these. You move the pulleys apart to tension.
larry

 

[Big Bri]

I checked mine today

my belts were 185
the top pulley was 185
the bottom pulley was 165
the idler was 130
and the gear box was 165

FYI i cut with the guard off so i could watch the belts.

What i would like to know is if instead of an idler pulley that has spring tension on it, would it be better to have a groved pulley in its place?

so instead of the idler pulling inward you would use a solid thread rod, put the adj. nut on the other side of the. . . i don't know what you call it but the little metal tit that the thread rod goes through and the nut sits on top of to keep tension on the spring. any way put the nut on the other side replace the smooth pully with v grove pulley and push outward.

it seems to me that there would a lot less drag on the belt and that it might help keep it a little cooler.

I don't know if i was clear enough for ya'll to under stand but if you did what do you think?

 

[davitk]

I checked mine today

my belts were 185
the top pulley was 185
the bottom pulley was 165
the idler was 130
and the gear box was 165

FYI i cut with the guard off so i could watch the belts.

What i would like to know is if instead of an idler pulley that has spring tension on it, would it be better to have a groved pulley in its place?

so instead of the idler pulling inward you would use a solid thread rod, put the adj. nut on the other side of the. . . i don't know what you call it but the little metal tit that the thread rod goes through and the nut sits on top of to keep tension on the spring. any way put the nut on the other side replace the smooth pully with v grove pulley and push outward.

it seems to me that there would a lot less drag on the belt and that it might help keep it a little cooler.

I don't know if i was clear enough for ya'll to under stand but if you did what do you think?

Why not look for a heat resistant belt?

 

[IslandTractor]

I checked mine today

my belts were 185
the top pulley was 185
the bottom pulley was 165
the idler was 130
and the gear box was 165

I haven't looked back at the measurements I took last year but I think they were similar. I had also looked into what the permissible temperature range of the belts was and recall that these sorts of temps were actually OK.

I haven't had any trouble with my belts and am now in my third season. That includes stalling the tractor on several occasions and also mowing heavy June grass (4ft) as well as brush. I don't claim to know what is best here but I am planning on leaving well enough alone.

 

[sunspot]

I had another belt failure. I believe this to be my fault due to over greasing. The picture understates the amount of greasy gunk that I found.
I will cut back greasing from every time I cut to every other cutting. I give 2-3 pumps per zerk.

I prefer to replace belts to replacing the main rotor.

 

[IslandTractor]

Are you sure that residue is grease? My first set of belts failed by burning up this summer and I had a mess just like that.

 

[sunspot]

IT.
It's a mix of grease and rubber. When my first set failed, it was all rubber residue.

How often do you hit he grease fittings?

 

[Big Bri]

IT.
It's a mix of grease and rubber. When my first set failed, it was all rubber residue.

How often do you hit he grease fittings?

i pump 3 in each every time i cut.

 

[IslandTractor]

i pump 3 in each every time i cut.

That is about what I do too.

 

[beppington]

Boy this is bothersome. I was all settled on getting a Caroni, & now this huge thread about belts burning up. I guess I could just put an extra set on the tractor & replace as needed, but man how irritating ... & for something that "should" be simple to design right. i.e. my Craftsman riding lawn mower belts last a loooong time, & would seem to endure alot tougher conditions.

Knowing what ya'll know now about the belts, would you still buy your Caroni?

 

[IslandTractor]

Knowing what ya'll know now about the belts, would you still buy your Caroni?

Yep. And what I know is that I had the original set burn up during the third season. New set is Gates which I think is probably a better belt. We'll see how long they last but if I have to replace 40 bucks worth of belts (20 minute task) every 2-3 years that just seems like routine maintenance for a hard working mower. I actually spend more on flails and attachment hardware given the yearly crops of rocks around here.

 

[beppington]

Yep. And what I know is that I had the original set burn up during the third season. New set is Gates which I think is probably a better belt. We'll see how long they last but if I have to replace 40 bucks worth of belts (20 minute task) every 2-3 years that just seems like routine maintenance for a hard working mower. I actually spend more on flails and attachment hardware given the yearly crops of rocks around here.

Ah, OK. Sounded like belt problems more often than that. No big deal then I guess.

 

[Woodcanoeguy]

Don't mean to veer off the thread too much......but....Can anyone detail the task of replacing the belts on Caroni Flail Mowers...Nothing at all in the manual

I loosened the tension bolt and removed it with the spring..... but the belts sure seem to be still firmly on the pulley's. Anything else I need to do before trying to lever them on or off?

 

[Reg]

Don't mean to veer off the thread too much......but....Can anyone detail the task of replacing the belts on Caroni Flail Mowers...Nothing at all in the manual

I loosened the tension bolt and removed it with the spring..... but the belts sure seem to be still firmly on the pulley's. Anything else I need to do before trying to lever them on or off?

I went through the "OMG, belts MIGHT burn up" phase of near panic soon after this thread started.
I got a replacement set from Agri, put them on, switched them back, scratched my head about the perceived "design problem" with the tensioner and belt routing,,, on and on.
Then just used the mower and have never had an issue.

I honestly can't remember there being anything unusual about their replacement.
Thinking it through I would probably have had the mower on the tractor at the time and raised.
If there was an "almost too tight" situation with getting them on and off I probably had the tractor (STOPPED) in neutral and would have "wound" them on one at a time and stepped them over.

Maybe I "mow slow" or have found just the right ground speed and cutting height for what I cut that the "belt issue" isn't (for ME).

 

[IslandTractor]

If I recall correctly I just loosened the tension idler completely then levered the new belts on. No problems doing so if memory serves. This is about how tight I got them. This photo was with the Caroni spring controlling tension.

(Note: during the hysteria about weak tension idler springs I replaced mine with a solid piece of heavy gauge wire/rod. I never went back to the spring though I was convinced that the rod made no difference as measured by tension (thumb test) or heat build up. If you are interested in details I posted those temperature measurements somewhere in one of these threads a couple of years ago)