Carpentry Of Homes,,, Nail Diameter,, and Codes?

[CADplans]

I am not a carpenter, but, I nail stuff occasionally,,

I have a 21 degree pneumatic nail gun,, and I was shopping for nails this morning,,
it turns out that collated nails for a nail gun are way cheaper than loose nails,

That makes no sense to me,,

1,000 galvanized, ring shank nails for a nail gun costs about $25
222 framing nails loose in a box, (5 pounds) $14
Buying loose nails,, 5 pounds at a time, 1,000 nails would cost $63, over double the cost of the nail gun framing nails
(I think I could buy 50 pounds of nails for less,, but, I do not foresee EVER needing that many nails, so, If I do not use the nails, there is no savings)

Yes, the loose nails are 0.162" diameter, the nail gun nails are 0.120" diameter

BUT,, BOTH are called framing nails, and they are about the same length.

IMHO, the ring shank nails would be harder to pull out,, the nail gun nails also look to be glue coated,,

SO, is a framing nail a framing nail, or does a code stop me from using a "framing nail gun" because the nails are too small of a diameter?

 

[Diggin It]

It's not so much about pulling out as it is about sheer/breakage strength in my view. A 1/2 bolt is stronger than a 1/4 bolt, right? You want a nail diameter strong enough to resist sheer forces, but not so big as to split the boards.

"Under 渡ail size, the 菟enny size refers to a standard nail unit. Nails are measured in pennies, believed to be from older times when nails were sold by the penny. At the time, the abbreviation for pennies was d, so nail sizes are described as 2D nails, 3D nails, etc. The shank diameter and length refer to the shaft part of the nail, called the shaft, which is driven into the surface."

6D 11 0.12 2"
16D 8 0.165 3.5"

Explaining Screw and Nail Sizes

To me, a 6D 11g nail is too small. I've been using the 16D by 3 -3.5" which penetrates 2 2x boards.

 

[Ford850]

16D coated sinkers, 5lb box, are $8.99 at Menards. $29.99 for 30 lb bucket, and $47.99 for 50 lbs.

 

[Diggin It]

I use the smaller ring shank nails for attaching 1 x trim boards in some cases, or when using steel framing brackets.

 

[Diggin It]

I'm not sure why HF reduced the diameter of the ring shank nails. The coated nails are showing as .131 diameter which would be better. The coating acts as a lubricant going in, but an adhesive for holding. They can be tough to get out, but not as bad as ring shanks.

21deg 3-1/4 in. Bright Coated Framing Nails, 1, Pc.

 

[clemsonfor]

I have also been told some of those Harbor Freight nails for their guns are clip head nails, where part of the head is like cut off. I have heard some codes do not allow those .

I would think code would specify a nail diameter, I know usually they specify a length.

 

[EddieWalker]

Local dock builder uses ring shank nails on all his boat docks. I've done about a dozen jobs on those docks in about as many years and found that ring shank nails work great on treated wood for about 3 years, then they come out as easy as any other nail ounce the wood dries out.

Framing nails are fasteners, which means that they are designed to hold lumber in place. NOT SUPPORT IT. Nails are not structural, which means that are never to be used to hold or support anything. Bolts are structural, hangers and brackets are structural with the approved fasteners, which are never framing nails.

Nails word by bending the fibers of the wood as they go through the wood, which locks them in place. The tip of the nail is worthless at holding the nail in place, so in some places a home inspector will want to see the top of the nail coming through two boards to know that they are long enough to get the full amount of strength out of the nail. This is also why clipped head nails are not allowed per code in a lot of areas. You loose to much strength without the full head of the nail holding the boards together.

As for cost, bigger is better, but there is a point where you are just wasting money. Kind of like using 2x12's for headers over doorways when 2x6 headers are more then strong enough for a 3 foot span.

Pretty much, the only time that I use nails is when framing studs for a house and installing shingles. 100% of everything that I use for exterior work, like a deck, is done with screws.

 

[CADplans]

So, pretty much everybody does not like the small diameter Hitachi - Metabo nails,,
but, that is what they sell as a framing nailer nail,,

Does no one use a pneumatic framing nailer? is everything hand nailed?

 

[clemsonfor]

Well said from an expert, Eddie.

I didn't nt use nails on much of anything esp outside. Like you said over the years they just back out and are worthless, even ring nails.

 

[RNeumann]

Much like the size of a 2x4 has shrunk with time and engineering so too have nails. Most framing and construction is done with gun nails. They are fine and meet code. The only exception is that some inspectors don’t like the clipped head nails. If you don’t know what that is, you don’t have any- it was an oddball. Some guns take an offset head which is fine.

Btw- comparing the cost of galvanized nails to framing nails isn’t a fair comparison. The gun nails have gained in popularity to the point the cost has come down. Where as the standard (sinkers) nails are more of a special item- palm nailer tight spots or attaching hardware.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

To meet code for framing, the diameter of the must be .131, length a minimum of 3 1/4". The .120 nails are a little bit cheaper. I have had building inspectors ask to see the boxes of nails we were using. I haven't been in the trade for the last 12 years, but I still don't have any hand nails.... I do have about 10,000 pneumatic nails though...

 

[PILOON]

Then it gets complicated.
Some inspectors refuse "D" head nails wanting 'full head' and others OK 'D" heads.
Fact is it has nothing to do with the head but more to do with the shank size.
Same for shingles,
Some accept 1 inch staples while others demand round head nails only.

With autocrats there is no grey, only black or white.

 

[clemsonfor]

Those nails looks very interesting

Look like normal framing nailer nails to me. Nothing special really.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I used full head 3 1/2" 16d nails for all of my framing from bostitch 21 degree framing nailer. I sunk 3 nails top and 3 nails in the bottom of the 2x6 studs and 2 top and 2 bottom for the 2x4 studs. Inspector never said a word to me about the nails. He did think I was nuts for running 16d nails through the heels of the trusses and adding hurricane ties as well.

Nails are shear connectors only just in case anyone was curious.

 

[CADplans]

Well, I went to Lowes, and found a box of Metabo framing nails, qty 4000, 0.131" diameter,, and they were a great price, (under $40,,, IIRC)

THAT will be my lifetime supply of framing nails,, the box was less than 2X the price of 1,000 nails,, so, I had to buy 4,000,,

I also bought another box of galvanized ring shank nails,,
the last box of 1,000 lasted through a BIG chicken coop build, and three home remodel jobs,
the three remodel jobs were a little small, but, they would have been almost impossible without the nail gun!!

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Some inspectors refuse "D" head nails wanting 'full head' and others OK 'D" heads.
Fact is it has nothing to do with the head but more to do with the shank size.

Yep. If a nail needed a head to stay in, wouldn't there have to be heads on both ends? What's keeping the pointy end in?

I could see if you're nailing something thin the head plays a part, but if you're nailing 2x to 2x with a 3" nail there's as much nail shaft in both pieces.

 

[ovrszd]

Air nailers are very cool. Increase productivity dramatically.

Second to that are air staplers. Very cool.

Builders that did my house had rechargeable battery powered staplers. I'd never saw those before. Much easier to use by not having to deal with the air hose.

 

[4570Man]

I never hand nail anything. I’m not a huge fan of framing nails to begin with and usually use screws. It’s much more secure and pulls tighter. If for some reason that’s not what I want to use I do have a framing nailer. My most common used nailer is my 15 gauge gun. It’s quite a bit beefier than a trim gun but not an eyesore like a framing nail.

 

[ovrszd]

I only hand nail if I can't use the air nailer.

I only use screws if the joint is going to carry a load. And that is bad design.

Disclaimer: I am absolutely, totally, not a carpenter.

 

[3Ts]

Those of you who use screws: Just don't use drywall screws for anything other than drywall. As was mentioned, the fasteners are used in shear mode and the shank diameter of drywall screws is pretty thin compared to a nail and the head is designed to pop off so it can be speckled over if need be. There are construction screws (such as Spax) that are more appropriate and meet all the construction codes.