CB85 Backhoe boom arm split

[BCLoco]

Just wanted to post an issue I had with my CB85 backhoe from Massey Ferguson, and get some thoughts on where to go with it. And maybe help someone else who might find themselves with a cracked hoe.

This backhoe has something like 100 hours on it. Bought it new with my tractor (MF 2850E) in July 2021. The backhoe was backordered a bit, so took delivery in mid-September of that year. It hasn't been flawless, but overall pretty happy with how it works, and really like the quick attachment/detachment.

Working away with it yesterday, when I heard a loud pop from what sounded like underneath the backhoe. I took a few minutes to look all around the backhoe and the subframe, trying to see where the noise had come from. Couldn't see anything loose or out of place, so went back to digging. On one of my next lifts, a dark spot on the edge of the boom arm caught my eye. The side plate had separated from the top plate and buckled out about 1/4 inch. Further inspection revealed the entire weld had separated on that side of the boom, about 16-18", right from the lower pivot up to where the boom arm starts to curve. I assume that the weld separated when I heard the pop, and the now completely unsupported side plate started buckling under the stress of the following lifts.

After a couple of minutes of wondering how the hell did that just happen, I got down and took a really close look. The short answer is an absolutely garbage weld. The side plate had almost zero penetration. The rust all over everything and under the paint, makes me suspicious whether any surface preparation at all was done prior to welding. Overall, not a good feeling looking at it.

I've attached pics for anyone interested in taking a look and weighing in. The backhoe is currently loaded on the trailer and waiting to go to the dealer Monday.

 

[ray66v]

Sorry that happened. As you noted, no penetration.

That's not simply a matter of not being clean enough. You get it hot enough, it's still going to melt the metal.

That has most likely been broken loose to some extent during previous uses, so there has been exposed bare metal there with capilary action causing the rust.

Clearly, either the welding machine was not set up incorrectly, if it was automated, or the weldor didn't pass their welding test. either way it should have been caught by the inspector.

Hopefully it's isolated to that area.

I would look with a magnifying glass, for any cracks or rust stains, on other parts.

 

[BCLoco]

Clearly, either the welding machine was not set up incorrectly, if it was automated, or the weldor didn't pass their welding test. either way it should have been caught by the inspector.

Thanks. I agree about the welding machine or robot not being set up correctly, since the weld fillet centerline is very consistent in how far it is from the side plate. Like maybe the workpiece wasn't set in the jig correctly. Incorrect weld placement is why this connection failed, I believe.

You may also be right that the rust is just from hairline cracks in the paint over that area, but something tells me the piece was never cleaned and prepped properly. You can see metal filings in the pics, like the type you get from the cutting/grinding process.

The rest of the welds look good, and no sign of any other paint cracks or rust stains, but I'm still going to push for a replacement boom arm. A repair weld might be better than new, but the paint won't be. And that buckling of the side plate is going to mean it's never really the same again. For what I paid for this backhoe, it doesn't seem right of AGCO to expect me to accept a compromised main boom arm.

One of the reasons I made this post is the service department's initial response over the phone. Skeptical, with some insinuation it must have been from abuse or user error. While I'm sure that dealers do see that often enough, in general it has become a knee-jerk reaction to start denying any defect, fault or warranty coverage right away. To me this is unacceptable. It's gaslighting your customer so you can shirk your responsibilities, and avoid any sort of penal system the manufacturer might have in place to discourage dealer warranty claims. Every time we share these experiences and the results on these forums, it gives other owners more tools and information to fight that slimy practice of warranty-dodging.

 

[JWR]

Many dealers start out on the wrong foot accusing the buyer of having abused the article which is broken. Hell, he has not even SEEN it yet !! I had a Bush Hog dealer disrespect me in exactly that same way when a large 135HP capacity gearbox cracked and began to leak oil. Bush Hog corporate admitted they had several do that in the same place and same way mine did. They replaced the gearbox and made the dealer install it free of charge. I think you will find AGCO will make it right in the long run. If the dealer balks, insist on contact info for the Regional Rep who handles your area. The Regional Reps have plenty of clout to make decisions on fault, who should pay and how much. That is their job really. A good dealer will cooperate fully, bring in the regional rep for evaluation and stop calling you an abuser -- unless you are proven to be one.

 

[BCLoco]

Many dealers start out on the wrong foot accusing the buyer of having abused the article which is broken. Hell, he has not even SEEN it yet !! I had a Bush Hog dealer disrespect me in exactly that same way when a large 135HP capacity gearbox cracked and began to leak oil. Bush Hog corporate admitted they had several do that in the same place and same way mine did. They replaced the gearbox and made the dealer install it free of charge. I think you will find AGCO will make it right in the long run. If the dealer balks, insist on contact info for the Regional Rep who handles your area. The Regional Reps have plenty of clout to make decisions on fault, who should pay and how much. That is their job really. A good dealer will cooperate fully, bring in the regional rep for evaluation and stop calling you an abuser -- unless you are proven to be one.

That's exactly what I thought to myself when he started in with the "maybe doing what it ain't meant to be doing". How about maybe try being diplomatic and giving your customer the benefit of the doubt, like you said, until it's proven otherwise?

Good to hear that Bush Hog was honest and admitted they had a problem, and came good on it. That's why these conversations are helpful. We learn about the issues that are out there, but we also get to hear about which companies stood behind their equipment and honoured their warranties. To me, that's invaluable. I'd hope that you're right and AGCO ends up being in that category. And who knows? The dealer may well end up being in my corner once they see the weld in person, but if not, that is a great tip about the the regional rep. Thank you!

 

[JWR]

That's exactly what I thought to myself when he started in with the "maybe doing what it ain't meant to be doing". How about maybe try being diplomatic and giving your customer the benefit of the doubt, like you said, until it's proven otherwise?

Good to hear that Bush Hog was honest and admitted they had a problem, and came good on it. That's why these conversations are helpful. We learn about the issues that are out there, but we also get to hear about which companies stood behind their equipment and honoured their warranties. To me, that's invaluable. I'd hope that you're right and AGCO ends up being in that category. And who knows? The dealer may well end up being in my corner once they see the weld in person, but if not, that is a great tip about the the regional rep. Thank you!

You are welcome of course. I had such serious problems with a 2011 MF 2660 brand new most would have called it a lemon and given up. I am stuck 300 miles from the farm and tractor except for monthly work trips which made everything difficult. The non-selling dealer did well considering. They gave me the contact info for the regional rep and he became the referee. An he was extremely knowledgeable too, not an office setter. Long, drug out & painful but I must say that in the end AGCO made it right. It went from a horror story to where I love the tractor 557 hrs later.

 

[paulsharvey]

Don't know what the warranty is, but that does look like material or workmanship defect. Although, if for some reason you can't get it covered either with warranty or insurance; that could be repaired. First choice would obviously be warranty.

 

[ray66v]

I haven't always been a big fan of how MF handles defects.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[dodge man]

That’s bad, and I bet it wasn’t cheap to buy that either. Good luck on getting it fixed, I’m not a welder and I can see it’s a bad weld.

 

[BCLoco]

You are welcome of course. I had such serious problems with a 2011 MF 2660 brand new most would have called it a lemon and given up. I am stuck 300 miles from the farm and tractor except for monthly work trips which made everything difficult. The non-selling dealer did well considering. They gave me the contact info for the regional rep and he became the referee. An he was extremely knowledgeable too, not an office setter. Long, drug out & painful but I must say that in the end AGCO made it right. It went from a horror story to where I love the tractor 557 hrs later.

That's very good to hear. Thankfully, the tractor has been a champ. Honestly, knock wood, but other than it being a bit cold-blooded (wants to be plugged in for mornings that don't bother the older machines), the 2850E has been a great tractor. 330 hours on the clock, and I have to say it was a good choice. For that, I'm very grateful. I'd much rather be dealing with a wonky implement than having problems with the tractor.

 

[BCLoco]

Don't know what the warranty is, but that does look like material or workmanship defect. Although, if for some reason you can't get it covered either with warranty or insurance; that could be repaired. First choice would obviously be warranty.

Yes I believe the warranty is two years, but I am not positive. For some reason, I don't have a copy of the warranty policy in my document package.

Ideally, the dealer would document the failure, then hopefully AGCO lets me weld and keep using the defective boom while I'm waiting for the replacement. Unfortunately, I can see it is currently listed as backordered on the AGCO parts website.

 

[BCLoco]

I haven't always been a big fan of how MF handles defects.

Let us know how you make out.

Unfortunately the service advisor I talked to Friday kind of left me with that impression. Don't need the stress of a fight with the dealer right now, so I'm banking on the problem being as obvious to them as it is to us. I'll be sure to post updates as things hopefully progress.

 

[BCLoco]

That’s bad, and I bet it wasn’t cheap to buy that either. Good luck on getting it fixed, I’m not a welder and I can see it’s a bad weld.

Thank you. I'm hoping if 100% of us can plainly see it was defective from the get-go, then surely they can't do much arguing over replacing it. I'm thinking worst-case scenario, they want to repair it themselves. I don't know how much choice I have in the matter, but I think I'd rather disassemble the hoe and take the boom to a welding shop and pay to have it done professionally. I'm an ok welder, but I'd never trust my skill level to hold those two pieces back together for whatever working life it has left ahead of it.

 

[ray66v]

Unfortunately the service advisor I talked to Friday kind of left me with that impression. Don't need the stress of a fight with the dealer right now, so I'm banking on the problem being as obvious to them as it is to us. I'll be sure to post updates as things hopefully progress.

They can't possibly say this is abuse, once they see it. And, it's probably not the only one that was welded incorrectly, so MF may already know about the defect.

The fight could be over the repair, or replace aspect.

I would just stress the point that they can't re-weld the entire part, and you won't ever be able to trust it, which was exactly why you bought new to start with.

 

[BCLoco]

Some delay in getting the backhoe to the dealer, but finally managed to get it down there today. It's roughly a 4-1/2 hour round trip.

In trying to keep focused on the issue at hand, I haven't mentioned to this point that my now-preferred dealer is not the dealer that sold me the machine. We moved during the tractor purchase process, and are now located roughly equal distance between the selling dealer, and my preferred dealer. The selling dealer lost our goodwill over issues that came up after the sale, mostly related to how their service department did the backhoe installation, coincidentally.

Back to today, dropped in at the dealer and spoke with the same service advisor I had on the phone. He's much more amenable to my plight in-person, and has clearly been trained that under-promising is better than under-delivering. I respect that.

We look at the backhoe, he decides the service manager should take a look. Service manager comes out--another really nice guy--and agrees that the issue sure looks like a defect. Unfortunately, MF only does one year warranty on their backhoes and loaders. That means it's the regional reps call to make, as out-of-warranty defects are out of the dealer's hands. The regional rep should be stopping by sometime in the next week or so. I left the backhoe there for him to inspect.

I'm not sure about naming names on TBN (I should probably have read forum rules *before* posting), but in any event--regardless of what happens with AGCO--the ladies and gentlemen at this dealership are first-rate. It's a rare thing to come across a place today that has so many people that clearly hold the best interests of the client as the core of their business.

Will update when the verdict comes back.

 

[irvingj]

You've found a good one (dealer), congratulations. They're worth their weight in gold, I think! --Pssst: when all is said and done, a Jug o' Joe and a box of munchies from Dunkin' goes a long way toward a proper thank-you!

I will add that the one serious (expensive) issue I had with my 2007 GC2310 was also.... a bad weld. Obviously a lack of penetration on the 4WD shift fork/lever. Replacing that $30 part cost me well over $1000. Unfortunately, well out of warranty.

 

[ray66v]

This dealer may very well be "first rate".

However, smart companies are very good at giving you that impression.

I worked with insurance companies that would make the customers feel really great, while they pressured me to behind the scenes to screw them.

At least in my area, my MF dealer has changed so many times, I've stopped trying to keep track of them. The one I bought the tractor from, was 10 minutes away. Now, I spend about an hour and a half, going there and back.

 

[ray66v]

You've found a good one (dealer), congratulations. They're worth their weight in gold, I think! --Pssst: when all is said and done, a Jug o' Joe and a box of munchies from Dunkin' goes a long way toward a proper thank-you!

I will add that the one serious (expensive) issue I had with my 2007 GC2310 was also.... a bad weld. Obviously a lack of penetration on the 4WD shift fork/lever. Replacing that $30 part cost me well over $1000. Unfortunately, well out of warranty.

And, they SHOULD have taken care of that OBVIOUS defect for you.

 

[BCLoco]

You've found a good one (dealer), congratulations. They're worth their weight in gold, I think! --Pssst: when all is said and done, a Jug o' Joe and a box of munchies from Dunkin' goes a long way toward a proper thank-you!

I will add that the one serious (expensive) issue I had with my 2007 GC2310 was also.... a bad weld. Obviously a lack of penetration on the 4WD shift fork/lever. Replacing that $30 part cost me well over $1000. Unfortunately, well out of warranty.

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Nasty! Especially considering that is a part you should just never, never have a problem with. Those are the kinds of failure that really leave a sour taste in your mouth. An issue ticking away deep in the machine that you had no way to know about or prevent.

 

[BCLoco]

This dealer may very well be "first rate".

However, smart companies are very good at giving you that impression.

I worked with insurance companies that would make the customers feel really great, while they pressured me to behind the scenes to screw them.

At least in my area, my MF dealer has changed so many times, I've stopped trying to keep track of them. The one I bought the tractor from, was 10 minutes away. Now, I spend about an hour and a half, going there and back.

Indeed. My industry is automotive. The car dealer's business model is built from the ground up to maximize profits, ethics be damned. I've seen and heard more horror stories than I could ever recall. Between that and my experience at my original MF dealer, combined with the tone of the service advisor on the phone, is why I was expecting pushback from the service department at this dealer. Up to this point, I had yet to deal with them in any significant way.

The fact is, they are nothing but a middle man in this scenario. They didn't build the machine, and they didn't sell it to me. AGCO is who needs to come good for a defective product. If I don't get a satisfactory result, my fight is with AGCO directly. And if they aren't looking to create satisfied, repeat customers in the compact tractor market, they're nuts.

Right now, the tractor market is polarizing, where most growth is at opposite ends of the spectrum: Huge machines for massive commercial operations, and the compact/sub-compact market for small farms, homesteaders, and landowners. Any company that is not growing their compact tractor market, is cutting off a huge chunk of current and future sales. I'm sure AGCO pays someone well to know that fact, and developing a bad reputation just to maximize short-term profits is a quick way to find themselves without a seat when the music stops.