Chain and Binder - general tie down question

[Ken45101]

I take it you don't own a Duramax?

Yes I do have a Duramax. But the key word was significant acceleration. Pulling a heavy load (14,000 yesterday), I don't try to see how much fuel I can waste. I really doubt that one could add enough acceleration on a 10% grade to add significant load to the front tie downs.

Ken

 

[megaboz]

Yes I do have a Duramax. But the key word was significant acceleration. Pulling a heavy load (14,000 yesterday), I don't try to see how much fuel I can waste. I really doubt that one could add enough acceleration on a 10% grade to add significant load to the front tie downs.

Ken

Ken, I was trying to be funny. I know what you mean about that go pedal, it will drain that tank pretty quick.

I agree, with a load it will be pretty hard to really apply a large force, but I do agree with others that it is better to go with a little extra heavy chain just to be safe.

 

[Ken45101]

I agree, with a load it will be pretty hard to really apply a large force, but I do agree with others that it is better to go with a little extra heavy chain just to be safe.

Oh I agree to go with a little extra. Just that you will never get nearly as much load on the front tie downs as you will on the rear ones. You just can't get as much forward acceleration as you can braking deceleration or a crash .

Not unless you have a F15 turbine engine under the hood and then you'll have to worry about the jet blast too as well as burning the paint off the tractor!

Ken

 

[pdowling1]

One point to consider when using chains & binders. Don't get carried away tightening them. I once saw an old Ford 8N tractor with steel rears (Custom made for rolling sod) BROKEN IN HALF - it actually broke the casting where the cluth is housed. Without tires to provide some "give" the binder was able to apply enough force to do this. Of course it was tied down with a single chain right over the center of the tractor, not 4 corners as recommended. I wish I had a picture to post.

 

[KeithInSpace]

Don't get carried away tightening them.

I concur wholeheartedly. I tighten the binders to the point there is resistance and there is a bit of load in the tires of my tractor. I just want to make sure it doesn't fly away.

My chains always have a small amount...1/2 inch or so over 3 or 4 feet...of 'droop' in them. When forced (really forced...heavy braking or other 'extreme' situation), the tractor could move around inside a 1 inch or so bubble on the deck.

In fact, I regularly have "skid marks" under the tires on my deck where the tractor has done just that and the shuffling tires have left marks. Not that ANYONE could ever see the tractor shifting...the movement is imperceptible. But I don't have a massive amount of force unnaturally holding tractor to trailer. I just make sure it stays put.

[soapbox]

I treat this much like a bridge would be designed. Park in the center of any bridge span, and you can feel it bouncing from the other traffic, wind, and other forces. If a bridge was perfectly ridgid, it'd be impossibly large and it would absolutely CRUMBLE to the earth. Just doesn't work that way. Can't have a perfectly rigid bridge.

Similarly, you have to put an inordinate amount of force on a tractor to make it NOT MOVE on the trailer. Controlled adjustments to relive stresses imparted on the "system" by a variety of road conditions...bounces, twists, shimmys, wind, etc...is very appropriate and absolutely necessary.

Let me put it this way: Jump on one corner of your 8' x 20' trailer and guess what happens? The entire trailer twists. It is NOT perfectly rigid (nor should it be). So you don't want to MAKE your trailer become rigid THROUGH your tractor, do you? You are then making your tractor a STRESS MEMBER of your trailer. Bad idea. You just want to keep it there...nothing more.

[/soapbox]

 

[sparc]

Interesting thread with some good info on hardware (chain, binders, etc?) but I didn't see much about how to rig the chains.

What I mean is crisscross front to rear, left to right, or maybe both depending on the piece of equipment being moved and the weight.

I also read the FMCSA Cargo Securement Rules and found little on the subject of crisscrossing and the 44 page rulebook has no example illustrations in it or photos showing examples of proper or improper rigging.

 

[Ken45101]

I believe the right way is to the nearest corner, no criss crossing, etc.

The idea is that if for some reason a chain comes loose, the other three tie points will still secure the load. If you criss cross and one comes loose, then the load can move and create slack in the other corners.

Ken

 

[sparc]

I believe the right way is to the nearest corner, no criss crossing, etc.

The idea is that if for some reason a chain comes loose, the other three tie points will still secure the load. If you criss cross and one comes loose, then the load can move and create slack in the other corners.

Ken

Thanks for input Ken. I understand your reasoning and its what I have done in the past with other equipment I have trailered. But I have read a number of posts here and elsewhere that suggest criss-crossing, and make decent arguments to support their view.

Makes me think twice if I am doing it right. I recently bought a Bobcat 610 and since I don't have the operators manual I don't know if there is anything in there about how to secure the 600 series machines for transport or how to rig it if lifting with a crane, or where the center of gravity is which would seem to be important when loading on a trailer. I imagine the COG is somewhere between the axles, maybe closer to the rear axle with a standard 60" bucket like I have. Is this information in the operators manual? Are those large mounting hooks for the backhoe a good place to grab the front? Or is it better to get the chain around the lift arms on both sides and come down over the bucket. The back corners have what look to be a piece of 1/2x4x4 angle welded to the frame in the upper and lower corners. These look like a good place to grab the rear.

 

[Ken45101]

My JD manual says "both front and rear chains must be directed down and outward from the machine". The diagram shows the chains going out toward the trailer corners from the center tie down in front. That seems to nix the criss cross idea.

I don't know the BC machine. The JD has two tie points (oval cutouts) on the rear corners, down low, marked for hooks. The manual shows the front being secured to the channel in the center of the machine that doubles is the lift arm stop ("bucket rest" is what I'd call it.) Do not chain across the lift arm cylinders.

I have heard that BC machines have a 70/30 weight distribution. The the C/G would be 70% of the distance toward the rear axle from the front axle.

 

[JB4310]

I have seen criss crossing of tie down chains, but not very often.
It brings up an interesting question, but I can't think of any real benefit or any great negative either. except uses a little more chain.

On my CUT the front attachment points are only 12 inches apart, so there would not be any big difference there, the back is maybe 24 inches.

With most people following proper 4 point tie down procedure, there is a great deal of safety factor built in. Can't see how criss crossing chains would ad much or any benefit.

JB