Chain / binders question

[Tomtint]

Question is this. I tow a Cat 246 with tracks on a regular basis during snow season. The machine weighs aprox 9000 pounds with out the trailer. I have 2 chains with hooks for the rear and usually one chain with a binder across and through the front. I know the DOT wants one on each corner, but can someone explain to me why attaching equal length chains at the rear, pulling forward to get them tight then wrenching down the front of the machine is not as good as binders in the back ? It always seems that binders do not stay as tight as latching and using the machine to tighten a length of chain.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Because if something happens to that one front chain, your SOL. Get some ratchet binders and if tightened correctly should never loosen on a piece of equipment.

 

[bcp]

...can someone explain to me why attaching equal length chains at the rear, pulling forward to get them tight then wrenching down the front of the machine is not as good as binders in the back

My understanding is that they want to see a way to tighten the chain at each corner if it becomes loose in transit. The equipment, in many cases, may not be able to move itself to tighten the chain. They are just applying the rule to all cases, regardless of equipment condition.

Bruce

 

[Tomtint]

Because if something happens to that one front chain, your SOL. Get some ratchet binders and if tightened correctly should never loosen on a piece of equipment.

Understood. So what would the problem be with 2 chains in the rear, using the Skid itself to tension them, And then 2 chains with binders in the front ?

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Understood. So what would the problem be with 2 chains in the rear, using the Skid itself to tension them, And then 2 chains with binders in the front ?

I don't think you could ever get the tension on them that a chain binder could. The idea is really about reducing the movement/ shock loading on the chains. Also, depending on the angle of the chains, your capacity changes greatly as does the effectiveness.

 

[Rustyiron]

Now you know better than to apply common sense to anything govt. regulated!:laughing:

 

[aczlan]

Understood. So what would the problem be with 2 chains in the rear, using the Skid itself to tension them, And then 2 chains with binders in the front ?

As I understand it, that is ok as long as the driver has the key to the machine and is capable of driving it in case the chains need to be re-tightened in-transit.
Edit: from the FMCSA site:

§ 393.112: Must a tiedown be adjustable?
Each tiedown, or its associated connectors, or its attachment mechanisms must be designed, constructed, and maintained so the driver of an in-transit commercial motor vehicle can tighten them. However, this requirement does not apply to the use of steel strapping.

Aaron Z

 

[Tomtint]

I don't think you could ever get the tension on them that a chain binder could. The idea is really about reducing the movement/ shock loading on the chains. Also, depending on the angle of the chains, your capacity changes greatly as does the effectiveness.

I have to disagree with that, I know for certain I can get the chains tighter by pulling them with the skid, and the chain angle would be the same with or without a binder,

 

[bdog]

I don't think the law states that you have to have binders on all corners but I do think for a machine on tracks you are required to have four tie downs. As long as they are tight I don't think they care how you tightened them but I would have four Seperate chains.

On my tracked skid steer I use the factory anchor points on the back for a short chain and ratchet binder on each side. For the front I use a ratchet binder on each side with no chain. I hook the binder directly to the skid steer frame. I secure the machine with four ratchet binders and about 6' total of chain.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I have to disagree with that, I know for certain I can get the chains tighter by pulling them with the skid, and the chain angle would be the same with or without a binder,

Then your better than I because I don't believe that you can tighten a chain better with the MachiNE than with a binder. If we really want to split hairs we can look at tractive effort or drawbar pull and the coefficient of friction on an icy deck vs the mechanical advantage of a ratchet binder applying tension.

 

[bdog]

I use four boomers but my skid steer has 8,000 lb tractive effort. Just sayin.

I have seen a lot of people tighten up one end with the machine and boom the other. Not my preference, but it works.

 

[varmint]

I can't tow squat with my Subaru and little trailer, but it seems to me that it all comes down to what the trooper who stops you wants to see: I was once with a guy hauling a large tractor on a suitable trailer with a 1 ton pickup. He got stopped for something, and when he gave a smart reply to the trooper, the rule book came out, and when the trooper was done, my buddy was about $1200 poorer. All by the book.

 

[mitch becton]

recently had a equipment customer call in panic had driver stopped in atlanta ga by dot was told and we verified heavy equipment chains must have the hooks as part of chain not clevis pinned our chain supplier has not had this style in years are now in production i also beleive if you ask dot the chain binder requirements will change with weight and i also think the same amount of binder/chains for front and rear binding as one of my customers told me one time not enough hold down will kill you or someone else and make an ugly mess better to be on safe side

 

[aczlan]

recently had a equipment customer call in panic had driver stopped in atlanta ga by dot was told and we verified heavy equipment chains must have the hooks as part of chain not clevis pinned our chain supplier has not had this style in years are now in production

So you were told that the type of hook that has a little clevis built in and connects the chain with a pin is no longer allowed? Did they say where it specifies that?
The only requirements I have run across for chain/fitting type is that it must be stamped with the rating (ie: 3/8 GR70) or its treated as grade 30 and you must use cables or chains on crushed cars.

I also beleive if you ask dot the chain binder requirements will change with weight and i also think the same amount of binder/chains for front and rear binding as one of my customers told me one time not enough hold down will kill you or someone else and make an ugly mess better to be on safe side

IIRC, the requirements call for your tiedowns assemblies to be rated for something like 1.5g of force in a forward direction, 0.8g backward and 0.75g lateral.

Aaron Z

 

[kevin37b]

IDOT IL . requires chains on 4 corners run with 4 binders There will be a chain on the backhoe bucket . This has come from some genius at DOT . I used to use 1 chain through the back and 1 across the loader ,2 binders . They will not put up with a tractive effort of chain tightening .

 

[mitch becton]

it seemed from the driver a section directly related to heavy equpiment in the DOT bible and they verified the customer which happens to be hertz equipment in atlanta also have a dump truck heavy equipment company i deal with called him about the situation he was told of this but has yet to be stopped but has ordered all new chains with hooks a part of chain as with most dot stops lots depends on the officer if like most government companies no body there knows for sure about all the regulation anybody on here with dot could you help

 

[aczlan]

A correction to my earlier post on the amount of securement, looking at the FMCSA site, I found the following:

Each cargo securement system must be able to withstand a minimum amount of force in each direction.
Forward Force = 80% of cargo weight when braking while driving straight ahead.
Rearward Force = 50% of cargo weight when accelerating, shifting gears while climbing a hill, or braking in reverse.
Sideways Force = 50% of cargo weight when turning, changing lanes, or braking while turning.
Upward Force = 20% of cargo weight when traveling over bumps in the road or cresting a hill.

it seemed from the driver a section directly related to heavy equpiment in the DOT bible and they verified the customer which happens to be hertz equipment in atlanta also have a dump truck heavy equipment company i deal with called him about the situation he was told of this but has yet to be stopped but has ordered all new chains with hooks a part of chain as with most dot stops lots depends on the officer if like most government companies no body there knows for sure about all the regulation anybody on here with dot could you help

I looked through the FMCSA handbook again (Cargo Securement Rules | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and found nothing requiring welded clevises. Looking online, I found many reputable places (such as Fastenal) selling Grade 70 chains with clevis hooks and stating that they meet FMCSA standards. Some examples include: https://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/45001 and Transport Grade 70 - Laclede Chain Manufacturing
I suspect that the problem was that their chains were not marked as being Grade 70, so they had to be treated as Grade 30 (which meant that they were undersized).

Aaron Z

 

[FTG-05]

This might help someone here: Full stop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ENC]

If you wanted to be legal but save time. but the binders on the rear chains and wire them shut, then still pull them tight with the machine.

Around here I use one chain across the back and one across the front from one end to the other with a binder on each chain. However I don't travel over about 15 miles from the house and am friendly with most law enforcement. If I were hauling often or further from home I would likely run a 6 chain set up with one on each corner of tractor and one for the loader and one for the rear implement. All bound. It would be time consuming but I don't think they could find fault with it either.

 

[NorEaster]

Best way is to use 4 binders, you can get away with only two chains. I.e. front chain is run from one side of the trailer to the other. Use the binders on each side to pick up the slack, attaching each binder to the chain and then the machine (two points of contact on front, one per binder, left and right side) Repeat for the rear...