Chains and binders

npaden · Mar 20, 2006

Harbor freight seems to have pretty wild prices.

First I called and they said they didn't have any grade 70 chain. Then I looked it up on the internet and they have some 5/16" - 20' that shows to be $36.99 online. Then I called the local store up and they quoted me $23.99 for it once I gave them the item number and then said they had 21 in stock.

The 3/8" grade 70 is rated for 6,600lbs and that for sure will be more than anything I will ever be hauling so I think I will go ahead and get that. With an implement on my tractor it could weigh in just over the 4,700lbs that the 5/16" chain is rated for.

Thanks, Nathan

Highbeam · Mar 20, 2006

The Working Load Limit of each chain doesn't need to equal the weight of the item you're chaining down.

I think you will be well served with the G70 3/8" chain and binders rated higher than the chain. Feel confident that it is done heck for stout.

Thorndike · Mar 20, 2006

npaden; You're doing the right thing. I don't think too highly of cheapening out when it comes to safety. With the proper setup like you're doing, I wouldn't be afraid of following you at 70mph, as for strappers and cheap chainers, I get away from them as fast as I can! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Highbeam · Mar 20, 2006

( The Working Load Limit of each chain doesn't need to equal the weight of the item you're chaining down. )

I was referring to actual DOT requirements. I don't try and anticipate the worst case scenario, like what if I hit a brick wall while doing 100 mph upside down in a curve. The DOT publishes requirements that are proper minimums, anyone can do more for grins and giggles and to save grandma. The point is that you don't have to do more than the DOT requires unless you want to.

Av8r3400 · Mar 20, 2006

Boy, I'm glad you live in Washington. lol

bczoom · Mar 20, 2006

( Boy, I'm glad you live in Washington. )
Me too.

It sounds like some people like to play on the edge.

Do you run the bare minimum on auto insurance as well?

Go ahead... Save a couple $ and risk everything.

How foolish... I just don't get it.

keeney · Mar 20, 2006

The regs for tie-downs do not take accidents into consideraiton at all. The calculations are based on accelerations not exceeding 0.6 G's or something like that (I don't remember the exact number) with the justificaiton that it is very unlikely any haul vehicle would be able to accomplish acceleration or deceleration higher than that under normal operation. Hit a concrete bridge abutment at 60 MPH and I don't think the trailer nor the tractor are going to stay in one piece, and its not going to matter how strong the chains are.

4x 3/8" grade 70 is probably overkill for most compact tractors. I am certainly a fan of overkill, so I am not going to discourage anybody from that.

However, its always nice to actually know the minimum required to do the job so that you know if its 2x overkill or 10x overkill and can make an informed decision.

Another interesting practice that apparently does not anticipate accidents: I see equipment chained down all the time with the chains crossed over to the opposite side of the machine. Works great as long as there is not a roll-over. In a roll-over, there is nothing to keep the thing from just flipping right over and off the truck / trailer!

The stories that grade 70 is "required" probably comes from the requirements that the grade be marked or identifiable in some way. Grade 70 has the nice yellow chromate plating - easy to identify. Anything else is going to look like any old rusty old chain. Without the grade stamped into the links or some kind of tag, it will have to be assumed to be grade 30. Lots of stuff would be under-secured with grade 30 of the same size as 43, so some people get written up.

I don't recommend straps or ropes.

An enclosed trailer or a trailer with sides with a reasonable tight fit (using blocking or just being "full") is also considered sufficient under the regs, so thats why you see the landscapers using the trailers with the rail sides - they don't have to bother tying all those machines down becuase the sides prevent them from moving around or falling off.

- Rick

thcri · Mar 20, 2006

(
An enclosed trailer or a trailer with sides with a reasonable tight fit (using blocking or just being "full") is also considered sufficient under the regs, so thats why you see the landscapers using the trailers with the rail sides - they don't have to bother tying all those machines down becuase the sides prevent them from moving around or falling off.

- Rick )

Im going to disagree with that statement about trailers with sides and not having to tie them down.

About 4 years ago I go pulled over with my pickup and a 4 wheeler in the back by a Minnesota State Trooper. My 4 wheeler was not tied down. I was told if my pickup rolls over the 4 wheeler has to stay with the truck to be legal. In other words you best tie it down and just more than one across the seat. I would assumer that goes along with trailers also. I don't think having sides on a trailer (without a top or cover to hold things in) would make one legal.

murph

MikeD74T · Mar 20, 2006

textI was told if my pickup rolls over the 4 wheeler has to stay with the truck to be legal.

The concept of a legal rollover is interesting ????

Dargo · Mar 21, 2006

( The regs for tie-downs do not take accidents into consideraiton at all. The calculations are based on accelerations not exceeding 0.6 G's or something like that (I don't remember the exact number))

It's actually .8 as I mentioned earlier. However, that does not factor in any flex in your trailer. Simple flex in a light weight trailer can easily result in a a shock load of 1.6 (as mentioned earlier). Neither of these equations take an accident into consideration. I mentioned that because I'd prefer to not have my tractor break loose and run over me if someone pulls out in front of me and I hit them. I'd have to assume that you've had someone pull out in front of you. Again, for the cost, I value my life more than $30.

( ...so thats why you see the landscapers using the trailers with the rail sides - they don't have to bother tying all those machines down becuase the sides prevent them from moving around or falling off.

- Rick )

Actually, I'd have to say that 99% of the landscapers use the trailers with the rail sides because they are cheaper. The trailers with the rail sides are considered utility trailers, and would be adequate for most landscapers. The trailers without the sides generally are considered car trailers and would be more appropriate to use hauling a CUT.

I figured that someone would advocate not tying equipment down at all. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif At least others are concerned with the appropriate size of chains and binders, and not worried about how to transport equipment without tying it down at all. Anyway, thanks! I now won the bet I had with someone else here. I said that someone would say that it is okay to not secure equipment on a trailer. He said no way someone would say that. So, hey you (I won't mention your name - just 'hey you' /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif), I'll take that payoff with a nice sized bottle of Crown. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Highbeam · Mar 21, 2006

Mmmm, Crown.

I don't worry about frame flex or the cycle of the moon. Instead I use the DOT requirements as the minimum, that's what they are, the minimum.

My 4-3/8"-G43 chains and 4-binders far exceed the minimum required by DOT. If that makes you folks afraid to drive into my state then that's fine with me. Too many folks here anyway.

I will not be guilted into thinking that I must have G70 because it just aint so.

RobertN · Mar 21, 2006

Call or visit your local state trooper office. Ask for a person in the Commercial Enforcement dept. Ask them for the specifics in your area. I did this last year. I emailed and phoned our local CHP office. They were very nice and helpful.

I described the size and weight of my truck, trailer, and tractor(Ram2500, 16' 700lb trailer, Kubota B8200 at about 2300lbs). They told me what I needed; turned out I had been chaining improperly...

Out here, the Cal-DOT follows Fed-DOT rules. They said I needed to secure each corner seperately. Implements needed a chain over the top. They indicated chains/binders or straps of proper rating would be fine. I use chain/binder.

Previously, I used a chain with a binder on the front, and one on the back. They indicated that was incorrect.

Most of the data related here is correct. It does, however, vary from state to state. Go to your local highway patrol and get the info direct...

George2615 · Mar 21, 2006

I agree with Murph re: trailers with sides. I do occassionally see guys with landscape trailers that load their mowers and raise the ramp gate and never tie nothing down. It is illegal in my state since a sudden stop or an accident could cause whatever is on the trailer to fly out.
I saw a mowing service guy loading equipment on his trailer and raised the gate. I asked him if he was going to tie down his equipment and he laughed and said he was only going a couple miles to the next job. I pulled out about 10 minutes behind him and a mile down the road there he was pulled over by a trooper who was writing him a ticket for unsecured load. I saw him 3 weeks later and he said he should have heeded my suggestion.

George

HRS · Mar 21, 2006

Thanks, I don't see the need to call for further information. I believe that it has been made quite clear... A seperate chain and binder for each corner. A strap over the 3pt implement should work. I would probably like a chain, but I will have to play with this one to keep from damaging the implement. As someone said, a hose should work well. I spent hundreds for the load distribution and anti-sway for my camper, so understanding that you must spend a little to keep it safe is nothing new to me. However, I have never hauled such a heavy load on a trailer before, so I appreciate the dialogue. This has been very informative.

The load distribution hitch is another topic. Since I already have one, a Husky rated at 10K, I will not ask about it. However, if anyone is pulling a heavy trailer, this should also be a consideration. I pulled my camper (4,200lbs) twice before getting this particular hitch. What a huge difference it makes. Therefore, I'll also have the hitch and sway bars used on this trailer. I've got a little ground to cover on each outing.

thcri · Mar 21, 2006

( textI was told if my pickup rolls over the 4 wheeler has to stay with the truck to be legal.

The concept of a legal rollover is interesting ???? )

Who said anything about a legal rollover. If for some reason I go in the ditch and roll the pickup over the 4 wheeler is to stay with the pickup. You can't have items sitting in trailers or pickups without being secured.

No body said anything about a legal rollover /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thorndike · Mar 22, 2006

HRS; Maybe weight distributing hitches "should" be brought up. The proper leveling of the tow vehicle is a big plus when it comes to towing. I've never seen it addressed on here. Seems most are concerned with just tongue weight, and what an undersized vehicle can pull. Oh yeah, there is a difference between pulling and towing.
I've also seen photo's here [and elsewhere], of guys trucks hooked up to their trailers. Some are scary, but I've never mentioned it. When you have a pickemup with a 10K trailer with machine on it, replete with WD hitch, should not the tow vehicle be level, and not squatting like a riceburner with a bag of groceries in it?

No flame war intended, just what's on my mind!

HRS · Mar 22, 2006

Is is quite amazing what a weight distribution hitch can do for you. I've watched it pull the rear up at least an inch when engaged. The beauty of it is out on the road. Before using one, I noticed considerable bounce when going over uneven surfaces, such as entering or exiting a bridge. You will not experience such with the correct hitch. Now there is also the issue of cornering. This past fall I made it up to the mountains a couple of times. Taking the sharp 90's, etc. were not a problem at all. The truck and camper were so tight, they really did function as one vehicle, no rocking, rolling, or swaying. They are worth the $400 or more you pay for them.

Highbeam · Mar 22, 2006

You don't mean my picture do you Thorndike? I thought it was pretty level and wouldn't change a thing.

I use a 10k rated WD hitch with 1000 lb spring bars, which by the way is not a sway bar. I really like the WD system.

Thorndike · Mar 22, 2006

Your vehicle seems to be sitting like it sgould, must not have been yours, but they are on here, and the road. I've a WD system for my traveltrailer, wiht a sway bar also. I've never needed this system on my 12K flatbed, or my little 7K Haulmark tandem, 7X14, but I wouldn't consider not using it on the TT.