chainsaw fuel questions

[Diamondpilot]

Every spring I brace myself for a whole bunch of carb problems due to "ethanol fuel problems". Its been a few springs now and no problems. I'm inclined to relax this spring.

I have about 20 motorcycles (all in top condition), ATV, sawmill, trencher, 3 generators, weedwacker, brush wacker, 3 chainsaws, wood chipper, & 3 vehicles. If this problem was real for me I'd be in big trouble.

I wonder if ethanol is not a regional product? That is the additives and formula vary? Trust me, ethanol is a big headache around here.

Chris

 

[Sodo]

All the gas pumps in WA have a sticker that says "Fuel contains 10% Ethanol". Once in awhile I see a gas station with a big handwritten sign stating "we sell ethanol free gas". There could be some regional difference, perhaps in how much water ethanol ingests (more/less regional humidity).

If it was real,,,,,, the problems would be far more than just reading it on forums. And there would be commercially available signage too!

Where I work everybody has at least 2 cars and some gas toys, ATVs or lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc. Some of them do the Sta-bil thing, worry about it, chase down ethanol-free gas (when convenient) and others do nothing.

But the bottom line is…….. I NEVER hear a word where they are discussing an ACTUAL problem.

Like me - no actual problems.

 

[arrow]

All the gas pumps in WA have a sticker that says "Fuel contains 10% Ethanol". Once in awhile I see a gas station with a big handwritten sign stating "we sell ethanol free gas". There could be some regional difference, perhaps in how much water ethanol ingests (more/less regional humidity).

If it was real,,,,,, the problems would be far more than just reading it on forums. And there would be commercially available signage too!

Where I work everybody has at least 2 cars and some gas toys, ATVs or lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc. Some of them do the Sta-bil thing, worry about it, chase down ethanol-free gas (when convenient) and others do nothing.

But the bottom line is…….. I NEVER hear a word where they are discussing an ACTUAL problem.

Like me - no actual problems.

Could have something to do with climate or how it is dispersed in the tanker truck. There is no ethanol free gas here in my state nor in any of the two surrounding states. It has been an absolute disaster and more equipment has been ruined as a result of "ethanol" at my place. I could only wish the effects of ethanol would be an "urban legend". I drain all of my equipment, cycles and get 3-6 miles less per gallon than before ethanol. To me and others like me, the "efficacy of ethanol" has been the urban legend.

 

[Sodo]

Agreed. If we all burn 10% more fuel the net amount of petrol burned is the same as before Ethanol added. Only difference is the Farmer lobby got a higher price for their corn. Probably from you. If there is a need for a lobbyist you can be pretty sure you are his target, not the beneficiary. Except corn sellers are beneficiaries! .

Again I haven't seen the absolute disaster or ruined equipment you're talking about so can't comment much on it. My current interest is the LACK of evidence. Search craigslist for ethanol. I would expect "worked fine just has an ethanol problem" to be prevalent. Body is in GREAT condition, just needs new hoses for ethanol.

I'm stumped. If its a true problem why aren't the spoils from this disaster appearing on craigslist? Equipment sellers don't actively exclude equipment with ethanol related problems, nor do they guarantee that equipment purchased does NOT have ethanol problems. No discussion of it period.

Nothing. Except on the forums.

 

[sdef]

Agreed. If we all burn 10% more fuel the net amount of petrol burned is the same as before Ethanol added. Only difference is the Farmer lobby got a higher price for their corn. Probably from you. If there is a need for a lobbyist you can be pretty sure you are his target, not the beneficiary. Except corn sellers are beneficiaries! .

Again I haven't seen the absolute disaster or ruined equipment you're talking about so can't comment much on it. My current interest is the LACK of evidence. Search craigslist for ethanol. I would expect "worked fine just has an ethanol problem" to be prevalent. Body is in GREAT condition, just needs new hoses for ethanol.

I'm stumped. If its a true problem why aren't the spoils from this disaster appearing on craigslist? Equipment sellers don't actively exclude equipment with ethanol related problems, nor do they guarantee that equipment purchased does NOT have ethanol problems. No discussion of it period.

Nothing. Except on the forums.

Agreed. If it was a systemic issue, equipment producers would be outraged and it would be all over the news and in front of congress and the courts. Conversely, the only ethanol news I have seen is something about the Obama administration wanting to withdraw their unequivocal support of ethanol due to environmental reasons or such, I seem to recall.

 

[Diamondpilot]

All the gas pumps in WA have a sticker that says "Fuel contains 10% Ethanol". Once in awhile I see a gas station with a big handwritten sign stating "we sell ethanol free gas". There could be some regional difference, perhaps in how much water ethanol ingests (more/less regional humidity).

If it was real,,,,,, the problems would be far more than just reading it on forums. And there would be commercially available signage too!

Where I work everybody has at least 2 cars and some gas toys, ATVs or lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc. Some of them do the Sta-bil thing, worry about it, chase down ethanol-free gas (when convenient) and others do nothing.

But the bottom line is…….. I NEVER hear a word where they are discussing an ACTUAL problem.

Like me - no actual problems.

You and yours are lucky then. I work on these engines all the time and see it. Perhaps it's climate related?

Chris

 

[arrow]

Agreed. If we all burn 10% more fuel the net amount of petrol burned is the same as before Ethanol added. Only difference is the Farmer lobby got a higher price for their corn. Probably from you. If there is a need for a lobbyist you can be pretty sure you are his target, not the beneficiary. Except corn sellers are beneficiaries! .

Again I haven't seen the absolute disaster or ruined equipment you're talking about so can't comment much on it. My current interest is the LACK of evidence. Search craigslist for ethanol. I would expect "worked fine just has an ethanol problem" to be prevalent. Body is in GREAT condition, just needs new hoses for ethanol.

I'm stumped. If its a true problem why aren't the spoils from this disaster appearing on craigslist? Equipment sellers don't actively exclude equipment with ethanol related problems, nor do they guarantee that equipment purchased does NOT have ethanol problems. No discussion of it period.

Nothing. Except on the forums.

Probably has more to do with self interests. If something stops running, manufacturers will be happy to sell you more stuff. More may have to do with who is fixing these things and explanations given are enough for people to have the "whadda ya gonna do? " attitude. Since I fix all of my own stuff, I know what this crap in our gasoline is capable of. If you ever had to pull the carbs out of Yamaha Vstars 9 or 10 times, you might be effected. If you had a perfectly good rototiller become unusable as a result of carb diaphragm softening and not be able to get replacement carb or kits to fix it, you might be effected. You already see the reduced gas mileage. I really do not know what you are considering valid proof but I have enough self proof to get sickened with the lack of logic for it and all of its political and monetary tentacles.

 

[NHmitch]

The ethanol problem all relates to phase separation, and attached is a scientific article that explains what happens:
The second page really explains how and why it will damage an engine.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/e15-gasoline-damage-engine

 

[murphy1244]

Stihl and echo saws are able to run ethanol gas up to 10%. My dealer says the additive market is a scam

 

[Happy Gilmore]

A family owned Honda Rancher sat unchecked for better than a year with ethanol blend gasoline in the tank and presumably in the carb. It sat so long due to the passing of a family member and being unused. Upon pulling the carb apart, I witnessed the ugliest carb bowl and float I have ever seen. Looked like a can of varnish left open to the air for 10 years. Ran perfect prior to sitting and after the carb cleaning. Just one example I've dealt with and from experience, way worse than I remember with pre ethanol gasoline.

 

[varmint]

Same old arguments... all I will say is I had problems using ethanol gas, but no problems when I used straight gas. My buddy who spends lots of time over on Maryland's Eastern Shore, among lots of outboard engines, has seen an epidemic of ethanol-gas problems. No ethanol, no problem. I would prefer to pay the farmers to grow something we can eat, and close down the ethanol plants.

 

[Sodo]

The ethanol problem all relates to phase separation, and attached is a scientific article that explains what happens:
The second page really explains how and why it will damage an engine.
E15 and Engines - Can Ethanol Damage my Engine - Popular Mechanics

Thanks for that memory! I read that article when it came out (2010) and I was afraid, very afraid. I bought my first bottle of Sta-bil as a result of that article. It all sounds plausible and my fear is not completely gone. But I am wondering why the predictions are so different than what I've experienced. Also who wrote that article? Maybe the Petroleum institute, unhappy with sharing 10% of the market with the Ethanol folks? 10% loss is a huge motivation for any market; plenty to form a political action committee or initiate a focused advertising campaign and start pumping out articles or hire radio personalities. (10% is Billions in the Petrol industry)

It was after that article that I started to bump a chainsaw on the ground, or tip a lawnmower sideways before pulling on the rope (to shake up the bowl gas). Or lay a motorcycle on the ground, which makes a noticeable difference in starting (with E-10 gas). It does make sense that if the fuel separates, the water will be in higher concentration at the bottom. Anyway I do suspect for a LOT of folks if their motor doesn't start it goes to the repair shop where the guy tells them it's not their fault it's the E-10 mandate thank you very much.

The omissions interest me. Why are these 'ethanol damaged' cars, toys and machinery not appearing on craigslist at deep discount? Costco & Home Depot and many others offer great warranties, why would they continue to warranty eqpt with E-10 damage (which by now, would come with an addendum stating that carbs must be drained) and not say a word publically? Why don't you see mechanics shops marketing their "Ethanol damage specialist"? Why do you have to search so hard for an ethanol-free station, and pure gas only cost a few pennies more? It ought to cost 40cents more in my opinion, and the Suppliers ought to be providing fancy hi-viz signs advertising "pure gas", not scrawled out on posterboard with a sharpie. Its so often there's an "I heard" about somebody having problems. Or "the repair shop guy said". As I said before there must be a hundred motors between me and my co-workers, and no genuine evidence of a problem.

If I am so lucky I should buy lottery tickets.:cool2:

I would prefer to pay the farmers to grow something we can eat, and close down the ethanol plants.

Agreed. Depleting our soil to grow Ethanol instead of food seems almost immoral IMHO. Especially when there's already petrol down there. But foreign dependence, or giving so many US dollars to OPEC is a big problem too. I don't know what to say about this part of the problem.

 

[arrow]

I thought North America was one of the largest petroleum producers. Why sell it here if they can get 9 bucks a gallon in Italy?

 

[varmint]

Arrow, you got it! There is great pressure to start fracking here in Maryland. There is also great pressure to re-configure our LNG ocean terminal for EXPORT as well as import (of which there isn't much going on right now, obviously) so go figure- why sell it in the domestic market for $2 when you can ship it overseas for $4 (or whatever). Now, I am seeing the argument that, well, its better overall for the environment if THEY are burning our gas, and not Russian oil or Chinese coal or whatever. But, I believe that there is some danger to our environment and local water supply from fracking, in spite of what assurances are given.

 

[Sodo]

But, I believe that there is some danger to our environment and local water supply from fracking, in spite of what assurances are given.

Probably no danger right away.