Chainsaw Size and Task

[DaRube]

I am leaning toward getting a small chainsaw (ie. Stihl 017) with a 14 in. guide. The majority of my use will be cutting small branches, and cutting through brush.

I do anticipate having to take down one or two larger trees per year because they die.

Is a small chainsaw incapable of the infrequent large tree work, or is it more a matter of time? Or safety? What would be the practical maximum tree diameter that I should take down with a small saw?

 

[scruffy]

DaRube, I would recommend two saws! One with a brush bar for your clearing and limbing, and one (20" bar/chain) for the tree work. A brush bar is more or less a rounded loop, and is much safer when cutting brush down close to the ground.

 

[Joe_W]

Hello DaRube,
I bought a Stihl 018 this summer for cleanup work and the occasional tree felling. I went with the smaller size due to back problems and the need for less weight. The other day I cut down an 86' walnut tree that was about 22" in diameter at the base. I cut from both sides and didn't have any problem getting it down and cut up. Although I do have frequent problems with the saw dying and losing power, and also being hard to start. Last night I cut up a hickory tree that fell in a recent storm. When I got done my back was killing me. But if I was using a heavier saw, I never would have been able to finish the tree last night. In theory you can take down a tree that is twice the diameter of the exposed length of your chain bar. But in practice you will run into bumps and obstacles that will limit you somewhat. I would recommend that you get the smaller saw, then when you need a bigger one for the occasional work, either borrow or rent a larger saw. Your back will thank you for it.
Joe W.

 

[ric]

Your 017 is just for trimming tree limbs and brush, not trees. The engine and bar are not designed to take the heavy sustained side load of cutting trees down. Although you can, as suggested in another post, you will fairly quickly take out both cranks seals and knock the case cement loose all of which cause vaccum leaks which prevent the saw from starting or running correctly. I'd bet this applies to all Stihl saws up to the 025. The 025 and above are for cutting down trees. The best unit for the money is probably the 029 or ms290 which is a renamed 029. My original Stihl dealer sold me the 018C as a light, easy to use, easy on the back saw I could cut down trees with. I also experienced the hard to start, stalling, no power problems which was traced to the fuel. Seems like with the lower end saws, 018C and below, you have to empty the fuel after each use, then run the saw dry, then mix new fuel just before you use to avoid all the hassles. Once I figured out the fuel issue the 018C ran okay from May 99 to August 01 when it just suddenly quit having self destructed as described above. In two years I cut mostly limbs and brush, but did cut down 12 to 15 trees all around 12 inches in diameter. I now have two chainsaws, an 029 to cut trees and a 18C to trim with. The Stihl saws on the low end 018C and smaller seem to be prone to other issues too, plan on changing the bar, chain and sprocket yearly as these parts also strain the seals and block glue if they are used when they have any wear on them. These saws also seem to have problems with the fuel line getting pin holes in them, probably from heat and age. The gas tank vent duck bill just inside the filler opening on the top of the tank will clog up causing the saw to lose power or be hard to start. Other issues include the spring on the on off switch being too stiff keeping you from controlling the saw on occasion. The cover over the air filter will pop off suddenly while you are using it letting the filter element fall out. The rubber gasket and the plastic insert behind the carb which seals the carb and provides the vaccuum signal to the carb can wrinkle or collapse creating a vaccuum leak and a power loss. The 029 does not have any of these problems. After I replaced the two crank seals, $15 each, bought the glue, $20 for a small tube, bought a new bar, chain and sprocket, another $60, this thing runs great again and you can bet I'll not be cutting any trees with this now high dollar low cost saw. Good luck, ric

 

[Knight9]

Hmmm...

<font color=blue>The Stihl saws on the low end 018C and smaller seem to be prone to other issues too, plan on changing the bar, chain and sprocket yearly as these parts also strain the seals and block glue if they are used when they have any wear on them. These saws also seem to have problems with the fuel line getting pin holes in them, probably from heat and age. The gas tank vent duck bill just inside the filler opening on the top of the tank will clog up causing the saw to lose power or be hard to start. Other issues include the spring on the on off switch being too stiff keeping you from controlling the saw on occasion. The cover over the air filter will pop off suddenly while you are using it letting the filter element fall out. The rubber gasket and the plastic insert behind the carb which seals the carb and provides the vaccuum signal to the carb can wrinkle or collapse creating a vaccuum leak and a power loss. </font color=blue>

Kind of makes a guy wonder why one would recommend or buy such a saw???

Kevin

 

[Youare]

A 14" bar can cut down a tree 1 1/2 times the diameter. If most of your cutting is soft wood and infrequent then a small saw is goning to work fine. I had an old 015 that woorked real well for cutting limbs less than 8" in diameter.

A sharp chain is the most important thing for any size saw but more noticable on the smaller models.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

try this if you like. find a reputable chain saw repair shop and ask them about any used rebuild stihl saws. i have three 028 saws, and the last one i paid $150 for. It ran very well for a year and a half untill a rust hole developed in the gas tank. i used it as a parts hag for the other two that i paid $175 and $80 for. the older 028 is a mostly metal good running saw that i have cut through 20" pine and oak with. I also bought a used 038 for $250 and it is a real wood eater. my first saw was an 045 farm boss i bought used in 1978. i had it rebuilt 3 years ago and it still works but sure is heavy compared to todays saws

 

[rdln]

Darube, I have a 5 year old 017, got it when they had a special (free extra chain and case for 200 dollars). If all you will do is what you described go buy one. Just dont forget that you put the saw in the bucket ang go to scoop up that log.

consider that you can get a 20inch Poulan for about $160 also.

 

[Bird]

DaRube, I know Stihl makes some fine saws; my brother has an 029. And while it's seen some heavy duty use and held up well, the blasted thing is so heavy than an old man like me wouldn't have it. I have a 14" Poulan and a lot of the guys say they're cheap junk. Well, this is the second one I've owned, and the only reason I don't still have the first one is that I gave it to a friend when we took off traveling for 5 years. And with this Poulan, I'll tackle anything up 28" and not worry about it a bit. And the only thing I've ever done to it is get the chain sharpened. I do (usually) try to remember to pour the gas out of it and run it until it dies before putting it away so I don't leave a gas/oil mixture in the carb. to evaporate if I'm not going to be using it for awhile. Hmmm, just realized, it's 4.5 years old; reckon I ought to think about a new spark plug someday? Oh, I did clean the air filter once.

Bird

 

[DaRube]

Well, you have my curiousity about the brush bar.....but I've been unable to find a picture of one on the web......

I'm also curious about needing to drain the tank on these babies between uses....is this required on all chainsaws, or only certain models / engine types?

 

[fractal]

How often are you planning on using the saw?

I recently had to upgrade from the electric chainsaw I bought when the homelight my brother and I bought years ago got so gummed up that the shop couldn't get it to start after moving from the city to my current property. The electric was fine on a city lot but was not sufficient for an acre of avocado trees. The local mower shop that I found to service my mower carried both stihl and husqy chainsaws. The sales person there told me that the stihl is a better saw for the professional but that he recommended the husky for a homeowner like me who doesn't use it daily. I don't want to start a husky vs stihl debate but that is what he told me. He also sold me a saw with a 16 inch bar that will take a 20 inch bar for 20 bucks more than the base saw that will only take the 16 inch bar. I paid a little over 200 for the saw. I guess paying retail has its benefits since he serviced the saw for free and then gave me a 6-pack of oil when it gummed up after 3 months because I used the 32:1 fuelil mix I was using on my trimmer on the saw and it fouled the plug.

What I think I am trying to say is a person who uses a saw a dozen times a year needs to consider different things than a person who uses the saw daily. The most important things to me are how easy it starts, how well it cuts, and how well it tollarates being tossed in the shed without having the fuel drained between uses. From what I have read and heard, you are doing well by avoiding homelight/craftsman saws from a maintence perspective. Above that, I found the price of a slightly larger saw is not that significant and settled for the largest saw that was comfortable in my hands.

 

[fishman]

I agree that the Stihl 029 is too heavy for limbing, etc. I have one and it will wear you out in an hour or two if you are lifting it over your head to limb trees. It's a great saw for cutting up tree trunks though. If your budget can handle it, you might look at the 026 pro which is just as powerful, but a couple of lbs lighter.

 

[hayden]

I find the comments about Stihl pretty alarming. I always heard they were excellent, dependable machines, but the accounts suggest otherwise.

I have two huskys, one model 50 which is (was) their "consumer" line, and a 262XP which is their pro line. I've owned both for 10-15 years, and often use then only once a year without draining fuel and without trouble ever. I've also used them both to cut down litterally hundreds of hardwood trees clearing land, so I can confidently say they hold up under the most demanding use. Although I don't abuse them, I do work them hard when I use them and have never had any trouble.

I did have a mcCullich before the husky, and after a few days of hard used killed it. It wouldn't start easily, would lose power, and had to be left to cool down before it would run again. That's when I dumped it and got the husky 50. Never experienced the problem again.

The Husky 50 was about $350 and the 262 was about $500, but after 10-15 years, they were worth every penny. I own two because one lives in VT and the other in NH. I love the 262 and no matter how hard I push it with an 18" bar, I can't slow down the motor. But it is a good bit heavier than the 50. The 50 I need to back off when cutting thick wood so the motor can keep up, but it's still an animal, and it's noticably lighter.

If I were buying again for the use you describe, I'd get the 50. It's more than enough for what you want and lightness does count a lot. When it came to taking out 100 trees, the 262 sure was nice.

You won't regret the extra cost when you have a reliable saw.

High techie, reciently founded a startup company and struggling for tractor time.

 

[banjobj]

Bird, I also have had very good luck with Poulan saws. I have a 306A 16 in. bar, that I bought new in 1978. I only have had minor work on it and cut alot of wood. It is quite heavy. I also have a Craftsman 20 in. bar,that is about 14 years old. It also is a Poulan I think. I certainly can't complain. I agree with Youare that It is very important to have a sharp saw. I should add that I use fuel stabilizer and haven't had any problems with storage.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by banjobj on 09/21/01 09:24 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Egon]

You would probably be better off with two saws. One light one for the trimming and the biggest you can justify for cutting down trees. The small ones will cut down large trees but there are safety concerns as you will end up trying for more than the saw is capable off and end up Jamming it and having to use wedges to get it out. The make would depend on price and amount of use before a decision is made. Professional fellers use about three or four popular brand names. But the first item you should purchase are the chaps or pants and steel toed boots. When cutting brush these are almost a necessity as it is very easy to snag the the bar or stumble etc.
Egon

 

[jdkid]

Hi ya
well two saws is not a bad thing to have .... ways to look at this if most of ya work ya need a small saw then buy a good one cos thats ya main saw the other one ,bigger saw if only needed now and then i would not brake the bank on that saw i used to use a 24 inch bar saw day in day out but now i've got a great 14 inch saw that does 70% of my work .the big one is good for felling and ringing up big logs but triming etc etc as arule 2 times the bar is max felling but bigger can be done . but cutting up i have seen 14 inch cutting up over 4 foot logs ...step and split way of cutting. another way would be a saw around 50-55 cc with a 14 and a 20 inch bar my bigger saw i have a 18 and 24 inch bar the 24 for felling bigger logs and the 18 for thining
catch ya
JD Kid

 

[gordon]

A brush bar can also be called a low-kickback bar. The reason this bar is more foregiving is it has a tighter loop and a low profile chain to go along with it. Most kickbacks happen when limbing, your putting the saw into limbs that are binding or at difficult angles. This style bar and chain combo actully put the rakers higher than the cutters at the end of the bar, so much less chance of kickback. So if you buy a new chain and it says it's not low or anti kickback be ready for some new surprises.

Be careful of some of the new (low end) saws, they are using a full skip chain in order to be able to run a longer bar with the smaller saw. Less cutting links less strain on the engine. That is good but the chain goes dull much quicker with less cutting links doing the work. So every saw isn't what it seems. Everything must be considered when buying a saw. Not just the size of the moter pushing the chain.

If your only going to buy one saw you should consider this. Have an extra bar and chain with you just in case you wedge the saw tight. That way you can take the bar bolts loose remove the head and install the new bar to cut the wedged bar out. Myself I go into the woods with two saws.

I'm a husky man but stihl, johnsered (husky clone) also make some tough saws. Simple gas care has already been given which is important. As well as using BAR oil.

Now for the safety part. If you go into the woods without chaps your a fool---no ifs ands or butts. I wear chaps and a helment with muffs and at times a wire mesh visor depending on what I'm cutting. Also a dull chain is more dangerous than a sharp one.

I'll take my Husky's any day of the week!!!!!!!!!! But that is personal choice. Lots of good makes and models.
Good luck and cut safe
Gordon

 

[cp1969]

Two saws is definitely the way to go. A small one for overhead limb work, and a bigger one for felling and cutting up logs, etc.

I have an old (c. 1980) Poulan Micro XXV that I can't wear out. It (to me) is perfect for overhead work. It weighs practically nothing, is well balanced, starts on the first pull when warm, oils well, and simply won't quit. If and when it ever bites the dust, I think I'll replace it with an Echo of the same size, because I suspect that today's Poulan's aren't cut fromt the same cloth. My bigger saw is a Husky 55. Each does what it is designed to do well; neither works well as a replacement for the other.

One other thing--it probably makes more sense to buy a quality saw (Stihl, Husky, etc) from whichever dealer that is closest. You will probably benefit more from having the dealer close at hand than you will from any real or perceived advantage from buying the "best" saw. Once you get into the good brands, any of them will do. They're all light years ahead of the old standards which many of us cut our eye teeth on, such as the Homelites and McCullochs, as well as the current home-improvement-center specials.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by cp1969 on 09/23/01 10:01 AM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[dmccarty]

I'll echo what Gordon said. Wear chaps. And wear a helmet especially if cutting down trees.

I have a Stihl helmet with ear muffs and face mesh as well as a pair of chaps. Maybe $100 to $125. Pretty cheap insurance to keep a body part or save a life...... A dull chain is very dangerous. You end up pushing which is a bad thing. Buy a couple of extra chains and a second bar if you don't have a second chainsaw. Also get some PLASTIC wedges to hold open cuts on logs. The really help prevent pinches.

Heck, right now I need to wear the helmet to protect my skull from all of the acorns and nuts falling from the trees this year! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I wrote a magnus opus on running a chainsaw that is in the thread about which chainsaw is better. It might be worth a read. Cutting down trees scares the heck out of me. I have read a couple of websites on how and I have done some but it still scares me. One of my coworkers has a friend who cut down a tree and now gets around in a wheel chair. Dead trees are worse than live trees.....

Good Luck,
Dan McCarty

 

[Yukon]

For what it's worth, I have a Stihl 026 and the power to weight is excellent. I found that two bars is the way to go for me. It's like two saws for the same price. During the fall months I spend atleast 4-6hrs a day for a couple weeks just cutting fire wood and the weight of the saw doesn't wear me out. Just MHO. Good Luck.