Cheap FEL cylinders keep bending

[ruffdog]

The point made by the Messicks video is don't back drag with the curl cylinders fully extended. Same as what some of us has been saying. If you have the cylinder only half extended, then the overlap between cylinder barrel/rod/piston is much more and will keep the cylinder straight.

 

[AchingBack]

One thing has became clear to me after all the ranting and raving in this post; the next time I buy a tractor I am going to pay close attention to the design of the curl rams. In general the shorter they are, the larger in diameter they are, the less they are apt to bend. As I do a quick look I see significant variance in curl ram design from tractor to tractor.

I keep hearing "Do not back drag with the FEL!". I have been doing it for years, so drastically as doing it with my front tires lifted off the ground, and have never had a problem. Probably due to my dumb luck of having a decently designed ram setup on the curl.

The critical factor is the angle of the bucket when back dragging. My loader manufacturer, KMW, states: maximum angle of 15 degrees. I've never understood why people back drag with the wheels off the ground.

 

[Cougsfan]

The critical factor is the angle of the bucket when back dragging. My loader manufacturer, KMW, states: maximum angle of 15 degrees. I've never understood why people back drag with the wheels off the ground.

I do it with the wheels off the ground when I want to maximize compaction of the soil I am leveling. It definitely helps. I don't probably ever use much more of angle of 15 degrees when back dragging. If I want to cut into the dirt (which the steep angle would do) I either use the FEL going forward or a box blade.

 

[not2old]

I've been back dragging on my GC lots since I got it. I'm very careful when going forward and never go too fast in case I hit something solid. I've hit things solid enough to stall the motor two or three times but did no damage. Going backwards I've put the cutting edge vertical all the time. There are times the tractor doesn't have the power to move and I give it all it's got and wiggle the curl to get it started. Either the hydraulics are very well designed or I've been very lucky. After reading this thread I'll treat my machine with a little more respect.

 

[lpakiz]

A technique I use is to back drag with the HEEL of the bucket. You can see exactly how much material is either accumulating or disappearing. I use the nose of the bucket as a depth gauge, to regulate how aggressive the heel cuts.
When you get to the end of the stretch, lift the bucket and keep backing up until any leftovers are in front of the bucket. Then, don’t change the angle much, just so the cutting edge doesn’t penetrate, and drive forward, scrubbing the material under the bottom of the bucket. Usually, the front wheels are off the ground in both directions.

 

[4570Man]

The critical factor is the angle of the bucket when back dragging. My loader manufacturer, KMW, states: maximum angle of 15 degrees. I've never understood why people back drag with the wheels off the ground.

I’m sure they’re going or recommend a low angle or no angle but realistically it’s ok up to 45 degrees.

 

[JWR]

Is the idea here that the back dragging made dynamic shock waves in the hydraulic line that went over its psi rating?
I'm thinking there was a fault there ready to go, and it would've happened soon enough even without the back dragging.

No, I don't think so. Fault was me, not the equipment. At least in my case it didn't involve anything as complex as dynamic shock waves in anything. It was me operating the tractor such that I put terrific downward force into hard clay with bucket and then dragged the bucket tip in reverse as hard as I could. The mechanics of that are lengthy to describe in words but look at any bucket/loader photo and you can see that when the bucket is tip down vertically and you back up while shoving it into the ground you produce force compressing the bucket cylinders toward retraction. Not powered by the hydraulics at all, but powered by the force on the bucket through the connections to the cylinders. Such force against the cylinders is not limited by hydraulic pumps and thus not subject to safe pressure level protections. That's what people are talking about in concerns about back dragging.

 

[AchingBack]

To increase compaction, one thing you can do when back dragging is have a load of material in the bucket.

 

[rScotty]

I’m sure they’re going or recommend a low angle or no angle but realistically it’s ok up to 45 degrees.

I'd agree with that. We all like to keep the angle less, but it varies with the job. You definitely don't want to have so much angle it catches when backdragging.

Someone mentioned using the back of the bucket instead of the lip. That depends on the bucket shape, but it's a nice technique if the bucket is shaped right. I've always wondered about making up something so that the back of the bucket would work even better for back dragging and compacting. Then the front edge would just be a final smoothing.

I use the wheel brakes a lot when backdragging & bet others do too. I usually try to keep the front tires just barely touching the ground, but don't care if they rise up clear off the ground.
rScotty

 

[hornett22]

Those stump buckets always looked like a recipe for disaster to me.