Chinese Tractors Aren't Worth the Risk

[kbarrett]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

I have to admit that my compact tractor knowledge is very elementary compared to most members on TBN, but I have noticed that the popularity of the Chinese tractors is growing steadily and I think they're here to stay.

The law of supply and demand seems to indicate that there is a ready market today for Chinese tractors. From my very sparse research, what "Risks" exist today are becoming quickly minimized as the dealer network strengthens along with an increase in marketshare.

It seems that a majority of owners of Chinese tractors have had their expectations realized. They seem content with their purchases. What more can you ask?

So, what evidently is not "Worth the Risk" to some is blatantly worth it to others. The numbers speak for themselves.

When the Korean automakers (Hyundai and Kia) first came to the states, they were the laughing stock in the automotive industry. Sure, they weren't as reliable, and had fewer features than competitive makes but they sold enough to gain some foothold. Now, they are respected for the rapid improvements they've made in such a short time.

In my area, dealerships that handle the Korean makes are doing exceptional with double digit growth in these uncertain times.

In summary: Chinese tractors aren't worth the risk to some. There are buyers that shouldn't consider this option, but in today's international economy they are worth it others. Just look at the rapidly growing community of happy contented Chinese tractor owners.

 

[marrt]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

Tractors4u, I completely agree with you. As long as the Chinese Tractor Dealers continue to work directly, on an individual basis, with the Factory, then I doubt they will have the leverage they need to “force” the factory to improve quality (where needed) and make the other changes necessary to take this product more “mainstream.” I also agree that the product appears to have tremendous potential, on paper, if only a few things were addressed. So, what about this idea:

- A number of independent tractor dealers get together and approach the factory to establish an “Authorized Factory Dealer” program for the USA.

- To minimize costs initially, a centralized distribution facility could be established to hold some inventory of tractors, implements, and parts to minimize wait times. Also, the Authorized Dealer network could fund the development of standardized operator’s and technical manuals and could operate a web site for FAQ’s and support. All this could be funded by a small “tax” (I know, I hate this word too) of each tractor sale.

- Consumers could still order a “crate tractor” but would have to use an Authorized Dealer.

- Authorized Dealers would offer some form of money back guarantee (e.g., for the first 4 weeks or 50 hours) and would establish a nationwide market for used product.

- The factory would agree to make the quality improvements necessary to better position the product for US markets (e.g., better rubber in the hoses, better batteries, a better power steering system, etc…) and to work only through the Authorized Dealer Network.

All these things would increase the cost of the tractor. However, in total, than would reduce the risk of buying this tractor and open the product to a wider audience.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>...Korean automakers (Hyundai and Kia)... they were the laughing stock in the automotive industry. Sure, they weren't as reliable...</font color=blue>

I see both the Hyundai and Kia's at the auto auctions a dime a dozen... cheap... still reliability problems... unlike the Korean tractor manufacturers...

<font color=blue>... Now, they are respected for the rapid improvements...</font color=blue>

Now... that may be stretching it a tad... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[EFC]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

"At this time most of the China tractor dealers are very small dealers.”

Some of us are not that small.

"They could probably sway the manufacturer to make some needed changes to bring the quality up to where it could and should be."

I agree that some (china) manufacturers might not be too worried about sending us a better tractor, but some of us have spent large $ and time with the factory to make a better product. Roger Powell for example has spent 5 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars working with DFAM (and others) to build his Taskmaster line and they are very receptive to changing things for the better. Not only has significant work been done to build a better product a lot of work has gone into creating standards a consistency. Since I sell both grey market and Chinese tractors (Dong Feng) I see that they both have real advantages and there is a definite market for both. There is no doubt that Chinese tractors are here to stay but personally I don’t want the factories to build a tractor to compete side by side with JD. To do that would ruin the reason I sell them in the first place, "affordable, functional tractors for the average person that has other priorities in life besides just owning a tractor". Kioti is trying to compete and every year the price goes up, up, up. Henry Ford built an empire on the idea of selling an affordable solid product to the masses. We have affordable... and with quality dealers we will achieve solid. The big three tractor manufactures have lost sight of the average buyer (the masses) and have almost begged for competition to come in and take away market share. Do I think china will put JD out of business, heck no. I’m preaching so I’ll stop. As for Ford 9N's we have a few of them at the ranch that we use to pull hay wagons around with. They were revolutionary for there time but were designed for a post wwII farmer and cost under $500.00 new and included a factory rep to come out and teach you how to operate maintain them (as my grandfather tells me).

 

[EFC]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

Marrt, did you do any research into Chinese tractors?? There are already Chinese companies doing everything on your list. I am not going to promote the product I sell because there are others that do the same but the tractor we sell has a US distributorship that has 8 main factory distributors (I’m one of them) in key locations across the country. From those distributors the tractors are sent assembled to authorized dealers who are required to maintain and service the tractors. They are required to maintain parts in inventory the more parts they have in inventory the less shipping they pay on warranty parts (good incentive to have parts on hand). The distributors work directly with the factory to make improvements in the product and in my experience they (our factory) are excited about making a better tractor. The factory sends engineers a couple of times a year to go over changes to be made; They also send factory mechanics over to work with new dealers. Each distributor is required to maintain and inventory of all tractor models assembled and ready for sale. I know for a fact you would get your money back guarantee from me before you would get it from JD. I don’t see how you could keep your "HIGH" standards and buy tractors in a crate. One or the other. The mainstream tractors are not affordable to the average buyer so the more mainstream you get the smaller you customer base gets not bigger. I know this for a fact because my good friend is the JD dealer and I outsell him 10 to 1 in compact tractors.

 

[kbarrett]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

Not too far of a stretch.... /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.asiawise.com/mainpage.asp?mainaction=50&articleid=2229>http://www.asiawise.com/mainpage.asp?mainaction=50&articleid=2229</A>

Resale values will take a bit longer to
rise.

 

[marrt]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

Hey, I said I did a little research. I didn’t say I was an expert. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I looked on your web site quickly and I didn't see any Chinese tractors for sale (at least that I recognized). Your comments about the other brand is interesting. Please tell us the brand(s) that has distribution centers and parts (Dongfeng?). Do they have a web site? I did see the Taskmaster site and was intrigued.

For the record, I can be convinced that I am wrong in my conclusion (although those who continue to question my motivation as a way of skirting the issue, psychoanalyze my “pattern of behavior” based on all of two posts, or attack my poor little ole innocent 8N, have done little to persuade me) . I will also freely admit that my original conclusion was based primarily on the Jinma brand since it seemed to be the most popular. In retrospect, it was unfair to “paint” all Chinese tractors with the conclusion I made about Jinma.

I have clearly stated what my concerns are elsewhere for reliability, maintainability, and resale value. If I can get comfortable with any two of these requirements, then I would/will seriously consider a Chinese Tractor.

 

[RanchMan]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>....psychoanalyze my “pattern of behavior” based on all of two posts...</font color=blue>

Never claimed to be a psychoanalyst - but it doesn't take 5 degrees from an "ivory tower" to recognize your actions for what they are. Again, I call it as I see it.

Perhaps there are those on this thread that disagree with my interpretation of your posts - that's OK with me if they want to have a discussion with you, though I believe in my heart it is kindof like "beating a dead horse." (and again, I don't believe your "change my mind disclaimer" in your latest post.)

I gave you the "benefit of the doubt" at first on the "Kioti isn't worth the risk" thread. Thought that perhaps you just didn't realize what seed you had planted. Saw it degrade rapidly and finally figured out what you were up to.

"Fool me once, shame on you -- Fool me twice, shame on me."

<font color=blue>....have done little to persuade me</font color=blue>

Persuade you of WHAT? That you should buy a Chinese tractor? MAN - you just don't get it! I have no, and have never had, any intent to "convince" you that "Chinese tractors are top notch" or that you should buy one! Talk about missing my points....

 

[Tscott]

Re: this subject

As i said in my response to the kioti post, In a given situation, affordability, value ect. ect. I dont see that any of the Tractors available today are a RISK. i think the word "risk" is a poor choice. To me the only "risk " in buying a tractor that I can see would be if you bought something used with zero warranty with no idea of its history or maintenance record and "as is". Most people like to believe in something called good faith, if you buy a new tractor or anything for that matter generally you will recieve a good reliable product. Marrt, instead of going thru each of the more affordable brands one by one and giving a disertation on the negatives, why not add some of the positive aspects so people who read the forum will truly benefit from your research. it will be interesting to see what you buy when you do decide to get off your 8n and buy it.

 

[EFC]

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

We do have a web site for our product but I don’t feel comfortable promoting it in this particular discussion. If you would like more info feel free to call me anytime 509-521-1507 and I will do my best to answer all your questions. I truly believe that the dealer makes the tractor not necessarily price or features. I wouldn’t buy a Jinma from the guy down the road from me but I would buy one from Mike Stuart. Totally different dealers with different priorities and experience level. As far as resale in my area you cant buy a used tractor with a loader they sell the day the paper comes out. I would be totally shocked if you couldn’t sell a used Chinese tractor for a decent price. I see the New Holland dealer in my town has a 30hp one year old model with 400 hours on the meter and the price is half what a new one costs. 50% loss in value in one year, holy cow. If you bought a stock that did that you would throw yourself on a fork/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif.