Chinese Tractors Aren't Worth the Risk

[EFC]

Re: this subject

Brent, your right there isn’t a big 3 model built specifically in China but a fair amount of the components that go into the tractors are. I think it is smart business to be looking for better cheaper ways to build your product so I don’t blame them for buying Chinese components. I sell Chinese tractors but I don’t see the horror stories I have read about here. I drain all the fluids out after initial break in but I do it to look for problems. I have been satisfied with the grade of the bolts and washers I have seen. When you buy a tractor made in China you are buying a brand new 20 year old tractor.
Numerous brands and 15 years worth of problems are being mixed together to come up with a final conclusion. There are many different grades of Chinese tractor; they are not all the same. China is not competing with the big three, they don’t have to. There is just a huge group of people that would for whatever reason never buy a new JD or Kubota. That is the market they are shooting for. I initially bought a grey market tractor not because I couldn’t afford a new JD but because I have many other priorities in life that are FAR more important than tractors like a retirement fund so I can retire before I'm to old to enjoy it or a college education for my son. I did not use my tractor to make a living so the absolute best wasn’t required. I just think there has to be a tractor for every level of buyer, we all have different priorities and tend to be purists about a thousand different things. I hope china doesn’t waste time on fit and finish and I pray that they stay away from hydrostatic transmissions and seat warmers ect because it never stops and neither does the inflation of the price. From my experience my average buyer doesn’t give a hoot what it looks like they just want it to run when they put the key in and to retire the wheel barrow (and aching back) to its rightful position as a backdrop for target practice. I would pay real money to take four guys from each corner of this country and put them in a room and tell them to come to a consensus on what is the best tractor that makes the most sense to buy. You would never get consensus in a million years if they didn’t actually kill each other before it was over. I would think the real tractor purists would be ecstatic about all the different brands and models they have to choose from these days. That is what this awesome country is about…freedom to choose what is best for YOU and fits YOUR needs.
This reply was not directed at Brent, he sells good tractors for a good price. I was just replying to the thread in general. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[Tractors4u]

Re: this subject

Thanks for the valuable reply Buck. That is what this forum is all about. I just hope your comment about hydrostatic trannies doesn't start something bad. I have expressed my dislike (which is just a personal choice) for hydrostatic transmissions in the past and was flogged for it. Just like the Chinese tractors, hydro is for some people and not for others.

 

[MikeStuart]

Re: this subject

One thing that should be noted here is that many different products from China have many different grades of quality. The Chinese tractor manufacturers are similar to American manufacturers in that many parts come from the lowest bidder. Having said that, the factories build a much better tractor than in the past. Only in the past year or so have thngs like cosmetics and leaks become important to the Chinese. I'm not trying downplay this, these are important parts.

The core tractor is almost entirely manufactured at the plant, while bearings, electrics, hoses, and fasteners are bought elsewhere.

The things on our list come from years of experience. The Chinese didn't go cheap on bearings, gears, and shafts, but they did go cheap on electrics, paint, and hoses. The Chinese would not upgrade those things, so we did.

Now the Chinese are using better small parts. Many of the tractors that we do all those things to probably don't need it, but we do it anyway because one bad one can ruin an entire potential customer base.

There is a difference between a cheap Chinese part and an expensive Chinese part. Just like there is a difference between a ribeye at a steakhouse and a ribeye at a truck stop. They both come from American cows(usually), but the manufacturing process is different. Just because its from China doesn't make it cheap and weak.

 

[Redfisher]

Re: this subject

<font color=blue>Again I am not trying to tick anyone off or get into a tinkling contest, all I am doing is looking for answers that will provoke me to buy one. The price difference is just to great to ignore.</font color=blue>

Of course not. We have not done any of these things you think must be done because you read it somewhere on the net, on our Jinma and it runs great and no one has ever said they are as good as a bota,But I can tell you it can do anything our 45hp 2 year old bota that was stolen could do,Just not as pretty.Any how no one is telling you to buy one anyways. Most of us are happy with our's and thats all that counts.Oh i'm not trying to tick anyone off /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Have a good one

 

[Tractor_Barn]

Re: this subject

Redfisher...The Leafs gonna pull it out tonight? I'd love to see them make it to the finals along with the Wings. An original 6 final.

 

[Woodbeef]

Re: this subject

Yep,that would be a good one!! The "Deadthings" vs. The"Makebeleafs"!!! Too bad Strohs left Motown!!

 

[Tractor_Barn]

Re: this subject

I miss Stroh's too. I made alot of $$'s in the 70's bringing Coors back to Detroit and taking Stroh's back out west. I never cared for either.

Vince

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: this subject

Sorry John I don't know where the Steve came from. My mind is not good anymore, guess its shot like everything else. Anyway to answer your question or rather statement about a Chinese Tractor and a Bota, in order for me to use it I almost have to have the hydro transmission. At least it would be the easiest to convert to hand controls. I was thinking about the Chinese tractor as a backup and grass cutter for my wife and daughter to use. Thank god for those hydro transmissions for some of us they are close to perfect. Anyway I have a ten acre lake that I am reinforcing the banks with concrete rubble. I can have the contractors drop most of it where I want it but there is always some final shifting and filling in low spots. For the really big stuff I just bug them till they bring in the heavy equipment and move it where I want it. When I say big stuff I am talking about concrete steps and slabs 6'x6'x6-8" which I get alot of. Ok enough about that at least you know where I am coming from.
At this point let me reinterate that I am not knocking Chinese tractors just trying to get some facts. And to answer another statement yes I have never even seen one up close and personel. The only place I have gotten my information is over the web. I would love to see one and I am willing to travel. I live in central Illinois and before anybody starts anything I would rather be living in LA (Lower Alabama that is) but the wife is from here sooooo. Anyway some questions got kind of glossed over so I will try once more and add just two new questions.

1. Is there any service (shop) manuals for these tractors besides the owners manual?

2. Is it true that the washers and electrical systems on these tractors are fine as is?

3. Now this question is not exactly for you but for the whole board "what are the good tractors the not so go and the bad ones" I realize that they are just like American stuff and I hate to use cars as an example but there are differences in just about everything that we buy. Again having never seen one or personally nor know of anyone that has one, what do I do to judge these tractors, the web is my only source of information? Its not like you zip down to the local tractor dealer and get the information. What did you guys use to evaluate what you bought or did you just buy it and cross your fingers and hope for the best? I am not trying to be smart here, again I am trying to learn. From previous posts I have been told there are good ones and not so good ones how do I sort them out?

4. Is there any kind of 10 year support like they have for cars with these tractors as far as parts go? My reason for asking this is that the Chinese are trying to go western and well my concern is how much would a western investor be out if they just closed the doors on an engine or transmission plant. I would think we would be back to the Yugo days then. Has this happened to date?

5. Now my ignorance is really going to show by this next question. How long have they been exporting tractors?

I cannot stress this enough because you guys who own these tractors and take offense when someone appears to be knocking something (and rightly so) you believe in, but I AM NOT trying to stir the pot. I am just looking for answers. If there are none thats fine.

Well I lied and asked more questions than I said I would. Sorry about that guys. Again I appreciate your honesty and advise.

Oh I am not going to register until after I buy my bota because of a pricing questions. I will be registered before the week is out though.

 

[JohnS]

Re: this subject

Maker,

From your needs statement, I think that you are best not to look at any Chinese tractor, or for that matter any gear tractor. Hydrastatic drive is the way to go, for having your wife and children operate the tractor. There are plenty of threads on TBN that deal with this subject. Also, sounds like you may have some physical limitations, that you would want a nice open deck and a limited amount of levers and controls. No sense having a tractor, even a back-up one, that is difficult for you to use. If I have this wrong, I apolagize in advance. I mean no dis-respect.

If you absolutly feel that a Chinese tractor is still a possibility, it is time for you to discuss with the individual dealers you would be considering. You are armed with more than enough info, to have meaningful discussions with dealers. I could guess on some of your continued questions, but my answers could be way off and be incorrect for the dealer you may consider purchasing from.

 

[EFC]

Re: this subject

Maker, it would be inappropriate for us dealers to say what we decided was a good and bad tractor on this board. Each dealer has a different level of tractor that they are comfortable selling. If you had a Ford, Chevy and Dodge dealer on this thread and asked who sells the best quality truck you know what would happen....... Please feel free to email me and I will answer all your questions according to what we sell and I am sure the other dealers would also. You will get different answers to your questions on different brands. John S is right, if you have the means and the need for a hydro then get it you won’t be disappointed.

 

[Redfisher]

Re: this subject

<font color=blue>Redfisher...The Leafs gonna pull it out tonight? I'd love to see them make it to the finals along with the Wings. An original 6 final. </font color=blue>

I would have loved that too,But the Leafs choked just like 1993 /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
Sorry to say but I have to cheer for Colorodo(being they were the Quebec Nordeqs(sp)
Anywho should be a good game tonight Eh? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Redfisher]

Re: this subject

<font color=blue>Yep,that would be a good one!! The "Deadthings" vs. The"Makebeleafs"!!! Too bad Strohs left Motown!! </font color=blue>

Good one /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: this subject

Let me start by thanking all of you for talking to me. Second I did as much research as I could in the last few days as I could not having a dealer close by. Now let me congradulate all of you that have these tractors. Its people like you that have lead to alot of new products, this in turn lowered the prices of Domestic and keeping them honest. And it is my true hope that they provide you with many many years of dependable service. I however have decided to pass for the following reasons: No service shop manuals i.e. torque specs and tolerances always come in handy. Poor components I went down to the bearing warehouse to find out if he had any experience with replacements for these tractors, according to him he could fit about 75% with quality bearings, the remainder of the time he was unable to procure the parts. Before everyone jumps on me I am aware you might be able to get the remaining 25% from a dealer or China and yes he was the only person that I checked with on this matter. I then went to the local Kioti dealer (they also handle alot of other off brands) and asked the service manager if he had any experience with Chinese Tractors. His answer was yes he had and one of the problems that he ran into that really caused him grief was that there are alot of subcontractors making the various parts and with labor being so cheap over there alot of the parts are hand fitted. According to him hand fitting was a real pain and added to the bill accordingly. I realize he might be blowing smoke up (you know where) but it really sounded logical to me. Now with him I decided to stir the pot a bit and said "ya sure" what about the Big 3 having parts made over there. His answer was yes they are made over there but to the specifications of the tractor maker. If they are not up to snuff back they go. I then went to the BBB (yes I know but I didn't know where else to go) and asked them about a repair parts plan for imported tractors something like cars had to have. Man did I ever get some dumb looks. Well I can get really ignorant and kept asking the same question and finally got the answer that the only requirements is that they have to pass the EPA Certification on certain models thats it. Again here this could or could not be correct. I then sent an email to a dealer and asked him why he did not carry the tractors considering the price a few dollars could be made here. His reply was that he talked to the service guy that did the repair work for the importer (he was a grey market dealer) that wanted to sell to him. According to him the new Chinese tractors required as much work as a used Yanmar. Again true or not I have no way of telling. Ok I know what your asking yourself right now, why didn't I go to a Jinma dealer and ask him? Well I went under the assumption that I already asked most of these questions here in this forum and if I was screwed up in my thinking I would be "straightened out and but fast" that did not happen.
Now why did I do this? Because from the inital posts it was advised that homework needs to be done by any prospective buyer, and not just from the web. I realize that I am lumping all Chinese tractors into one bunch but I will state again that I do not know how to sort them out if someone knows how to do this I would appreciate hearing from you, as my mind is always open to new ideas. I just can't for the life of me figure out how to rate and engine or gearbox without knowing who makes it.
These are some of my concerns and I am only posting this to maybe help dealers out. If you know what the concerns of the public are you can taylor yourself accordingly. Again my hat is off to all of you who bought them and got a good bargain. You may not think you are lowering the prices of the Big 3 but you are keeping them in check. And if you are mech inclined you got yourself a good bargin.
Oh I almost forgot you guys ticked me off. Any tractor can be modified. I can get a handicapped lift and hand controls for basically any tractor out there from compacts to combines and the other big boys toys. If you know of anyone that is handicapped have them check out the website www.life-essentials.net Just kidding about being ticked!!! The only reason I mentioned it is FYI you might know someone who would like to get out on a tractor but does not know how to get on and off much less operate the controls. Again thanks to all who took the time to answer me. Happy tractoring.

 

[Woodbeef]

Re: this subject

Hey Maker,

Give them HELL!!!

I have a friend over on @g-online called "Wheelchair" that was injured on his Harley. He still farms!! They modified the tractor for his use. I'll pass the url on to him if does not already know about it.

 

[Redfisher]

Re: this subject

Very well said Maker,

<font color=blue> No service shop manuals i.e. torque specs and tolerances always come in handy. </font color=blue>

The books that came with our Jinma has all the torques and tolerances.Anywho What you just said is how alot of us owners feel,Do your home work and if the tractor suits you(your needs and tool smarts etc.) then buy one,If not buy one of the big 3.I just get tired of people coming here and dumping on our tractors/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Good luck on your tractor hunting /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: this subject

His whole problem in the first place was buying it from agracat for 11.9k , He could have got the exact same tractor and fel with different stickers for 9.9k if he researched it.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: this subject

you guys sound like broken records. "i never seen a JD made in china!" well, go to here and see for yourself the proof and drop the subject..... would the great JD company invest anything in a country that makes nothing but crap? Look here and see for yourself what the future is. http://www.jdtt.com/em.htm
As far as nothing made in china is any good, they make it as good as the country thats importing it wants it. Yes they make cheap trinkets to , but then again, my work shoes I have are a pair of steel toe converse tennis shoe style. They are on my feet 14hrs a day 7 days a week. they are comfy and durable. I wonder what country can make such a product to withstand my stinking smelly feet that much?.....China.
And dont go saying"oh you cant compare shoes to tractors" I aint,Im just saying that China has the ability to make first rate products under proper management.
And by the way, I love my Jinma 284, it does everything i want it to , I pull a 2-14"plow, rototill, mow, grade, backhoe and FEL with it. And i have imported it myself and not ashamed to say that with the FEL i have less than 7k$ into it. Yes it was a headach to import it and get rid of the rest of the container but it beats spending as much for a JD loader for my whole tractor. And no, these are not for everyone. they are not hydro, not as pretty, but they are as or more powerfull. I am a professional mechanic who did not need a big warrenty or labor agreement. And as far as replacing aluminum washers and hoses and fluids goes, do you think your kubo or JD comes from the crate always ready for action befor your dealer preps it? besides, when has your JD or Kubo dealer ever shared service bullitins with you? you got to be crazy if you think they dont exist. But in the chinese tractor world just because the dealer network is limited and some of them post there bullitins or recommended fixes on the web they are just admitting they sell junk? get real.
I got over a year on my cheap chinese battery, and the guy i sold it to for more money than i bought it for still has the same battery. And yes it did have a few fluid leaks. I could care less, i use it as a farm tractor not a schoolbus. Sorry to sound gruff but there is a lot of opinions and generalisations flying around here and not enough facts . thats comeing from the guy who was used as an original source for this post as evidence not to buy a Chinise tractor. I will never import one again. but i would still buy one from someone else who would import one for me! I am happy for my cash

 

[JohnS]

Re: this subject

Maker,

Sorry, was busy picking-up my new Jinma 284, FEL, and BH, from Newark port. Its always fun to recieve new toys, regardless where they come from! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Appreciate that you went through the reasearch to determine if the tractor was right or wrong for you. Most wouldn't have took the time. I would recommend visiting a dealer and inspecting a tractor to be high in priority in this reseach, though. Rural King, which I believe is scattered around IL, sells a Jinma.

The Jinma tractors do not have a shop service manual per say, available from JM. Don't know if the larger dealers, Agracat, Northern, make there own manuals or not. They do come with an Illustrated Parts Break-Down manual and Operations manual. The Operations manual is more that tractor operations. It covers many adjustments and procedures. These procedures take up more than half the manual. I have the official 3" thick Ford service manual specificly for 1997 Taurus. It is difficult to use and requires numerous Ford special tools. There are no special tools required for these tractors.

The Jinma 204 through 284 are assembled on an assembly line. I hear the the larger series are hand assembled. I would guess that there are other Chinese brands could be hand assebled, as well. So, there is some basis of fact, that the dealer reported to you. Important to know what brands and what time frame. Four-five years ago, Jinma, was much different then it is today.

Not knowing what a used Yanmar requires to prep, can't compare the times. Assembly and check-out does take time, and is key question to ask a dealer. Experienced Chinese tractor dealers are highly recommended. If a dealer is just slapping them together, look elsewhere.

Hey, at least you gave us credit for help keeping the big 3 in check. Don't think they are concerned with the Chinese yet, but it will come. In my case, which is not typical, I saved at least 1/2 of the cost of a 28hp gear drive Big 3, FEL, and BH. For the less than 250hrs a year I will use it, I am willing to put up with any of the issues.

My 6', 250lb frame, requires careful getting on and off the tractor. It has many levers, the transmission between your legs, and smallish deck, require careful foot placement. Thought this would be something you needed to know.

Good luck in your tractor search. I would be interested in hearing on what you decide on for your "spare" or second tractor.

 

[Redfisher]

Re: this subject

<font color=blue>Sorry, was busy picking-up my new Jinma 284, FEL, and BH, from Newark port. Its always fun to recieve new toys, regardless where they come from! </font color=blue>


Glad to hear you got your new machine

Any pics on your site?

 

[JohnS]

Re: this subject

Only have the wheels on so far. Taking plenty of photos to be added to assembly gallery. Will add to site in a couple of weeks, have plenty of other updates that are ahead of them, in the queue.