Chinese Tractors Aren't Worth the Risk

Redfisher · May 1, 2002

Re: this subject

As far as what they are doing with the old factory, I don't know if I care. Maybe they are manufacturing antique Ford 8N parts, that can be sold at reasonable prices at TSC's. Too Funny/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Kioti is not worth the risk,Jinma is not worth the risk.(Whats next?) I think it would have come across better if the subject line said not worth the risk to "ME" Which is fine,But to tell every body they are not worth the risk is just not right.(Which is what your subject line seems to point out)

marrt · May 1, 2002

Re: this subject

 Kioti is not worth the risk,Jinma is not worth the risk.(Whats next?) 

Nothing is next because those were the only “off brand” dealers close to me, other than Power Trac. I do think Power Trac IS worth the risk, but that’s the subject for another post. I’ll be sure to not make the same mistake again and will put “to me” in the title. Some people seem to be a little sensitive about this issue. Either that or, as I suspect, they would rather attack to poster than attack the poster’s comments. Easier that way. Whatever…its only a discussion board.

What few parts I have had to buy for the N lately are made in China, Turkey, or India and they are of very low quality. I bought a new dip stick and it broke in less than 3 weeks. Simply broke off when I tried to pull it out. How can a company not even be able to manufacture a dip stick correctly?

More and more stuff is being made in China though and quality is improving. Same as happened to Japan, then Taiwan, then Korea. Westernized countries (i.e. Taiwan and Japan) will teach the Chinese modern quality control methods and quality will continue to improve. In the mean time, we (that is the West) get the benefit of cheap products, even if the quality sometimes leaves much to be desired.

Have you filled out JohnS’s survey? Have you had any quality issues with your Jinma? The folks who have had quality issues on JohnS’s survey seem to still be satisfied with their product. Perhaps their expectations were low or they even expected to have problems and, therefore, it’s no big deal to them. Or perhaps they just love their tractor. Most also seem to have very few hours on the tractors so far.

RanchMan · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

Either that or, as I suspect, they would rather attack to poster than attack the poster’s comments. Easier that way. Whatever

Gee - seems like I put your comments in blue plenty of times when responding, so I guess you aren't referring to me for a change....

I will agree with the "Whatever" statement... I think I've made my point and I'm sure others are tired of us "going at it" as well. You stand on your comments and I'll stand on mine....

marrt · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

 I'm sure others are tired of us "going at it" as well. You stand on your comments and I'll stand on mine.... 

Now there's something we can agree on. Anyway, no hard feelings on my side.

DarrenP · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

I think that "Marrt's" is certainly entitled to his opinion. I would agrree with most of what he says. It seems that some people sure are defensive. If we are to believe some commemts, Deere, New Holland, Case, MF, Kubota, etc, etc. are overpriced and are no more reliable that Jinma, Kioti, Mahindra, etc, etc. Is it not remotely possible that "third world" countries are not yet capable of producing the quality available in the U.S., U.K., Germany, Japan? Perhaps if I had invested several thoudand dollars in a "third world" tractor, I would not want to admit this to be the case.

JohnS · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

DarrenP,
No one is making the claim you have stated, i.e. quality of a Jinma = JD/NH/Kubota. Please refer to my website -> Jinma Info -> General Jinma Info, and read. Since I believe I was the only Jinma owner posting here, if you think I have been stuck with several thousand dollar tractor and defending it for that, you would be incorrect. I sold my Jinma 254 for what I paid for it. The new owner is very happy with it. Did I take the money and buy a big 3 tractor? Nope. Ordered another Jinma, FEL, and a new backhoe. I know what the issues are and can deal with them. I accept them for the price I pay. The price I pay, is having all three items for less than the price of the equivelent size big 3 tractor. Are the tractors equals? of course not.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Most of the discussion here has been on how that opinion is being expressed and what the true motives of the poster were. I have an issue when you take some facts, some incorrect data, and extrapulate to make conclusions for others, or make sweeping generalizations. The Jinma is not the tractor for marrt. That doesn't mean that everything he posted is 100% correct or that it is not OK for others.

I don't proclaim or post that everyone or anyone should go out and buy a Jinma. I will post when I see things that are contrary to what I know about these tractors or if someone is looking for info on them. Its up to each individual to examine that data and come to their own conclusions and what is right for them.

RanchMan · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

DarrenP -

It seems that some people sure are defensive.

I think this has a lot to do with the phrasing/verbiage being inflammatory. I believe if the same "observations" had been brought about in a different manner that you would not have the same "defensiveness." I think it is human nature to want to defend yourself when provoked.

That being said, I've been impressed with the Chinese tractor owners/dealers not simply jumping on "Chinese tractors Rock!" bandwagon but actually stating the +'s AND -'s of Chinese products based on real-world experience.

If we are to believe some comment, Deere, New Holland, Case, MF, Kubota, etc, etc. are overpriced and are no more reliable that Jinma, Kioti, Mahindra, etc, etc.

I reviewed the thread once again and couldn't find any such statement put out by anyone. (If I missed it, please point it out)

The closest I found was that some pointed out that some "Big 3" companies go to countries (like China) for some of their parts. I did see Chinese tractor owners/dealers say something to the effect of "Hey, yea there are some down-sides, but there are some big pluses too." I'm not sure I understand how pointing out Chinese tractor merits is the same as saying they're as good or better than JD, NH, Kub, etc., and I sure didn't find it explicitly stated.

Is it not remotely possible that "third world" countries are not yet capable of producing the quality available in the U.S., U.K., Germany, Japan?

Again, I didn't see where anyone said or implied that. I saw where it was basically stated that Chinese production it is "not as bad as you make it out". Does that mean EVERYTHING made in China meets "US/Japanese/etc" standards? No. Are some things? Sure - especially those things that are "subcontracted" out to "third world nations" from "US" companies.

Perhaps if I had invested several thoudand dollars in a "third world" tractor, I would not want to admit this to be the case. 

A completely unnecessary and inflammatory statement....

DarrenP · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

Perhaps not as offensive and inflammatory as YOU saying someone started this thread to "stir the pot". He then states his purpose in starting the thread and you "don't buy it." I would never call someone a liar. I personally don't care what anyone else buys with their money. I will buy what I want with my money. I also won't continue this discussion. It's not worth the frustration.

TBone · May 2, 2002

Re: Chinese Tractors Aren\'t Worth the Risk

Kevin,

You'll have to admit that these folks tend to be a little bias since they are in business to promote Asia and Asian products.

The Kia's and Hyundai's main selling points are $99 down and $199 per month, regardless of credit (on many of their models). Sure they get a lot of their products out on the street but just how stable that "market share" is only time will tell.

I have a friend in the used car business and he said that 99% of the Kia's and Hyundai's that people try to trade in are worth about 1/2 of what it would take to pay them off because of a low resale value and the bargain basement financing that the customer got in the first place.

TBone

RanchMan · May 2, 2002

Re: this subject

DarrenP

I didn't find my last message to you explicitly mean or vicious and it wasn't intended that way. Thought I addressed your points, and did make one specific comment as to what I thought was an inappropriate remark. That being said, I guess I'll go ahead and reply to your latest message...

Perhaps not as offensive and inflammatory as YOU saying someone started this thread to "stir the pot". 

Hmmm. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

I won't say that my rather vicious tone wasn't inflammatory (in actuality I agree with you), but my beef was with one individual's specific actions.

So, yea- I guess I agree with you- we've both been inflammatory- I used a rifle aimed at one individual's verbiage and motivation (not points, mind you, actually took a nolo contendre stance on that side for the most part), you used a shotgun aimed at the "third world tractor community" basically implying that owners of such tractors are so filled with pride they are unwilling to "admit their mistake" - or so it comes across.

I would never call someone a liar.

Well, although I didn't use those exact words, you got my point. Sorry to offend you - but I called it as I saw it based on the pattern I believed was starting to appear across both of the "...aren't worth the risk" threads. And, as I pointed out above, well, you basically did call folks liars implying they were being "dishonest" in some form or fashion because they didn't admit they made a poor purchase decision. (from your earlier message of Perhaps if I had invested several thoudand dollars in a "third world" tractor, I would not want to admit this to be the case.) Granted, your approach was a bit more subtle than mine...

I personally don't care what anyone else buys with their money. I will buy what I want with my money

OOOkay....? /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif not sure what point you are trying to make here, but I have absolutely no problem with that. Buy what you want. I don't recall ever saying what someone should or should not buy on this thread /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif...

I also won't continue this discussion. 

OK. Since this is only the second post of yours in this thread, at least you don't have a lot invested as of yet. And, as Marrt and I agreed on, others are probably quite tired of the "squabbling".

It's not worth the frustration. 

As to frustration - well, as Marrt and I found common ground on something, it appears you and I have as well. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

TO ALL OTHERS:

Well, I'll go ahead and apologize for putting my "strong" (and somewhat cynical) responses in a public place. I'm sure that there are those of you out there that disagree with my approach, even if you might agree with what I was trying to communicate over the life of the thread. (of course, I'm sure there are others <some of which have spoken up already> who believe I'm a complete Jerk and disagree with my points to boot.)

Regardless, believe it or not, I don't especially like confrontation, nor do I believe that everybody should hold hands and sing "*** Bah Ya". Just don't care for trouble-makers, and certainly don't like being one.

Hence, per Marrt's earlier suggestion, I'll exit "Stage Left" with my responses on this thread (I can hear the sigh of relief from you guys now. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif)

Please understand that my ORIGINAL intent was only to point out something that I believed was "going on behind the scenes" and wound up in me "scrapping" about my points. I'll go ahead and refrain from "defending" Chinese tractors (which some think I was doing for some reason /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif) or making any more comments regarding approach of others on this thread, as long as it isn't directed explicitly at me.

Hope this helps.....