Choosing the right HP and weight.

[mainenate]

I'm in the market for a tractor (with loader, and backhoe) to manage some wooded land that we'll eventually build a house on.
Tractor tasks are:
- Improving the existing 3/4 mile road, which is more of a woods road. Needs ditching improvement, including digging out where culverts are starting to get buried, so they don't start washing out; shaping throughout and adding some material to some parts. Figure I'll need a loader, hoe and box blade for these tasks.
- creating some trails (and possibly mowing them in the future) (some hoe work, and a bush-hog)
- construction tasks (trenching, site prep, materials handling etc) (backhoe, loader, forks)

I'm looking for something narrow enough to do some trail work, and eventually work around the house some. About 5' wide.
But I want it heavy enough to be able to do the work on the road (which will be ongoing), so I'm looking at ~3000# compacts, with 1200# bucket lift capacity.

I was initially thinking 30-35 hp, but I suspect the extra hp isn't really necessary for loader, backhoe and box blade work, where the PTO using up the power.
Without PTO requirements (mowing isn't going to be a big usage), I'm wondering if something like a JD 3025, or LS MT2-25, Bobcat CT225 or Kubota L2501 would be a good match. Construction tractors like the B26 get a lot done with 25 hp, so maybe that's plenty for me?

What do you think?

 

[jeff9366]

Buying 80 acres of woods, about half logged, with some slash on the ground.

If the total area you will operate tractor over is less than ten flat acres and you have plenty of time to do your tasks, a 2,700 - 3,000 pound bare weight tractor should suffice. 25-hp should be OK for the applications you have specified, less mowing trails where you will likely need to cut brush, which requires more power than mowing exclusively grass. A Backhoe equipped compact tractor with 25-horsepower may climb steep grades very slowly. There is only so much 25-horsepower can do.

Sub 25-1/2 horsepower tractors are exempt from Tier IV pollution controls, holding down initial acquisition cost.

New tractor owner/operators are often unpleasantly surprised when they experience how unstable narrow, light tractors are working over uneven ground or sloped ground. Many have aftermarket rear wheel spacers installed soon after purchase. Wheel spacers are palliatives.

If your budget is ample consider a 3,700 pound bare weight Kubota 'Grand L' L3560. Rear wheel spread is adjustable in increments.
T-B-N ARCHIVE: L356 site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

VIDEO: Kubota Standard L Series VS. Grand L Series - YouTube

If you have over fifteen acres where you will tractor and/or if your land is uneven or hilly, a 3,700 pound to 4,000 pound bare weight tractor with a 6" to 10" wider rear axle will be much more stable and much safer during operation.


The standard Backhoe on a minor construction grade B26 is considerably more capable than the optional subframe Backhoes offered as options for standard compact tractors.


Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is worse than depreciation on a tractor.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR​

 

[CobyRupert]

Sounds like you need a heavy-ish tractor for traction when pulling ground engaging attachments vs horsepower.
I’d also want something wide and stable if getting into ditches.
How much FEL lift capacity do you need?
Why do you want it to be so narrow?
If you have a tractor that allows you to operate individual foot brakes and still drive (i.e. brake and “go” pedals aren’t on same side), those tractor’s are nimble and can literally turn on a dime.
I’m biased, but moving up from the compact class to a small utility tractor gets you weight, FEL lift capacity and tires with adjustable width rims (sometimes).

 

[Richard]

Pardon my off the wall idea....

What about buying an older but in decent shape industrial backhoe (like those big yellow ones you sometimes see lumbering down the road)

It will out dig, out reach, out lift anything that you are currently looking at (get job done faster, easier) and then get a second machine for the smaller 'finesse' tasks.

I joined here 'a couple years ago' to learn about some tractors....wanted a loader/backhoe attachment..... kept talking about it to the wife and she finally said to the effect "Just go buy one of those that (her brother) is selling" (ended up with the JCB that will dig to a 15 1/2' depth)

Best thing I ever did and she also agrees. That said, we now have some smaller (and larger) tractors for other tasks around here but the backhoe is generally my first go-to item unless I need a PTO.

 

[MadGunner]

Agreed with Richard.

Re: tasks "ditching improvement, including digging out where culverts are starting to get buried" and "construction tasks (trenching, site prep, materials handling etc) (backhoe, loader, forks)"

Better to buy or rent a dedicated excavator. The backhoe on a tractor isn't nearly as powerful as the dedicated machines. Many land owners can group their digging tasks, rent or hire-out the excavator work, and it's done. Future use may be very limited. Compare the cost of renting an excavator in your area compared to the purchase price of a backhoe, and compare the capabilities. If you're going to do a lot of earthwork, renting a dozer or CTL may also be appropriate, especially to do the bulk leveling/grading work, and then finish with tractor. Tractors aren't dozers. Construction equipment with treads will do much better at serious digging versus anything with wheels (and tread equipment is typically built to handle the force of pushing dirt, which tractors don't do so well).

A tractor in the 30 HP range that is ~5-feet wide is likely to have relatively small backhoe options, resulting in more hours digging and adjusting position. Better to organize tasks to be done, group excavation activities and rent for a weekend or week, etc, then group dozer or CTL tasks and rent again. After the large earthwork tasks are complete, maintenance with a tractor should do fine for the trails, etc.

Not a bad idea to hire out some of the dirt work, as you can get a professional and his equipment to do the work, probably get it done fast. Best to agree on fixed-price per objective, or agree on a reasonable hourly rate.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I currently have an LS XG3025 (MT2 25E) with a BH. I previously had the LS MT125 subcompact w/ BH. I have installed a full septic system and trenched all the electric and waterlines. The savings vs. paying someone to do them, paid for the back hoe and my box blade. Then I prepared the building site and used it to haul materials from the shed to the house build. The little tractor did everything I needed it to do, saving even more!

I had the SCUT for 2 years and sold it for almost what I paid for it! Then I upgraded to the MT2 25E. I mow about 6-7 acres with it using a 72" finish mower no problem! Construction wise, use it to do a lot of landscaping, fencing, mulching, etc... I also graded the house driveway, spread over 200 tons of gravel roadbase, and prepared an area for a 2 1/2 car garage. The tractor is used to maintain a 1/2 mile shared gravel road, including the drainage ditches and culverts.

The nice thing about having the BH is being able to use it when I want to or need to. We are an hour away from the closet rental yard, basically adding up to at least 6 hours of my time just to go get and return a piece of equipment, plus the wear and tear and gas cost to my truck. I can do a lot in that 6 hours!

A typical example of a recent use of my BH.... woke up on a Sunday morning at 7am, only to find no water pressure in the house....looked in the backyard and saw a new stream of water that shouldn't be there! Got dressed and pulled out the tractor, hooked up the BH, and dug up the area to find the leak. Repaired the pipe and let the PVC glue dry. Went and had breakfast.
I got all that done in the time it would have taken to drive to the rental yard.... IF THEY WERE EVEN OPEN! .....not on Sunday! OR, could have called a plumber to come out in a couple days, or paid for a weekend emergency call....

Nope... turned the water back on around noon and started backfilling the hole. Had it all done by 2 pm. THAT is why I will not have a tractor without a BH. It comes in handy to do a bunch of things like lifting railroad ties, metal beams, lots of things other than digging.

Some say that they are "toys" and can't do any real work.... I call that BS! My BH has a 10' reach and can dig almost 7' deep.... I do not need more than that. A regular full size Construction BH WILL run circles around mine, but I am not really in a hurry... so why should I rush? I do not use it to make a living.... I really enjoy using and working the tractor.... I don't mind if it takes longer...I'm having fun doing it!

25 HP is more than adequate for my needs, I rarely ever run it near full throttle or PTO rpm. No regen because it's under the requirement. For doing the road maintenance, a box blade is the minimum you will need. I am currently building a land plane for the routine maintenance, the box blade will be more dedicated to doing the ditches. I use the front loader with skid shoes for snow removal. I am planning to get a rear blade in the future.

Another thing to consider is getting the rear tires filled. It adds a substantial amount of weight right where it is needed for traction. I have broken the traction while using the box blade. Never when the BH is on.

There are many small compacts that meet your requirements and will accomplish the work you are looking to do. LS, Kioti, Branson, Kubota, JD, etc... pretty much every manufacturer has one. You need to go and see them, sit on them, drive them around if possible. Make sure you are comfortable on the tractor... that is probably the most important!

Good luck on your search!

 

[Carl_NH]

You are on the right track with the Kubota TLBs for tough machines you can't get any better small TLB, but IMO you should step up to a L39/L47/L48 machine. But they are expensive, so as suggested get a full size unit JD310, Case 580, or JCB, with 3-4000 hours/10-15 years old for $25-30K they will do a lot more.

But if you intend to get the "big site work" done by a contractor then a smaller machine like a B26/L39 would work well, but you will want Pallet Forks, a SSQA bucket, and suggest a grapple for slash cleanup.

For example my B21 can't pick up a 1500 pound pallet of bricks, or pick a ton of pellets for a wood stove off the ground, but they are very capable, well built, tough machines much more so than the "added BH to a tractor setup", so you just need to get what's right for your intentions and budget.

 

[Egon]

From what the OP states for job requirements a tractor that is similar to my JD 4200 with hoe, loader and mmm would work quite well.

Note: similar to but not necessarily the same.

 

[shooterdon]

When I bought my tractor I spent a lot of time making up a spreadsheet with regular tasks, as well as projects I wanted to do

I also factored in what it would cost to rent the right machine, or contract out those projects and jobs that are rarely done.

It was time well spent, and I have the right machine for MY needs.

IMHO buying a 25 HP tractor to get away from regen is silly. You may want to add a snowblower and those need PTO HP. A tractor large enough to handle your tasks will need enough HP for a Bush hog or flail mower that covers your tire width.

Do your due diligence and the choice will be clear.

Lastly, consider if a cab makes sense.

I question the wisdom of investing over $25k in an older commercial machine for the big jobs. You will still need a smaller tractor for everyday work. And when repairs are needed on the older machine they will be expensive. But you know your needs and situation better than anyone.

 

[Beaver Cove Deere]

Ditching with a small machine is going to really suck. That's a job for an excavator, not a little back hoe.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Ditching with a small machine is going to really suck. That's a job for an excavator, not a little back hoe.

What job? A small hole to find a water leak? Dig a grave for a large draft horse? Install a septic system? I did them all with a little SCUT BH just fine....

It would have sucked for me to go get an excavator for any of those jobs....

 

[Beaver Cove Deere]

What job? A small hole to find a water leak? Dig a grave for a large draft horse? Install a septic system? I did them all with a little SCUT BH just fine....

It would have sucked for me to go get an excavator for any of those jobs....

We are obviously using the terminology differently. Ditching to me is roadside drainage swales and culverts. Trenching is pipe work for waterlines and septic systems. Digging a hole is for Pokey.

 

[old and tired]

Those tractors you listed are all fine for the jobs you mentioned, might take a wee bit longer but they can get the job done. My L2800 is more than I really need for 28 acres and 3/4 mile driveway...

 

[MadGunner]

Choosing the right HP and Weight (for a tractor), is related to the general concept of choosing the right tool for the job.

One approach is to select the most efficient tool for the task based on time, dollars and availability, while another approach is to select the most enjoyable experience. In some situations, many of these factors are aligned. In other situations, you may weigh one or more factors more than than others.

When you're in charge of the decisions, the most important aspect is that the end-result provides you with satisfaction.


Identify which criteria are most important (e.g. dollars, time, personal achievement, skill development, etc.). If your goal is to maximize tractor seat time, you're likely going to prefer options that involve a tractor. If your goal is solve the puzzle quickly and move on to other tasks, you may be open to options other than operating a tractor you own, especially if there is better tool for the task within easy reach.

If you enjoy using the equipment and achieve a sense of accomplishment from doing the work yourself, the overall cost in dollars and time may not be as important as how doing the work results in its own reward.

If an activity is going to be performed only once, purchasing equipment is likely to be more expensive than renting or hiring out. If an activity is going to be performed repeatedly, the effort in owning and maintaining equipment to have it readily available becomes increasingly worthwhile.


Example rental rates at Home Depot; prices shown are daily / weekly / monthly (as of October 2020), and vary by location:

$329 / $987 / $2468 - TLB Mini - Kubota B26 or John Deere 2032R tractor with loader, bucket and backhoe

$329 / $987 / $2468 - Mini Excavator - Kubota KX91, Bobcat E26 or John Deere 26G (rates from $200~$460 per day based on excavator size)

$359 / $1077 / $2693 - CTL - Bobcat T450 or Gehl RT135


Heavy equipment rental companies provide access to large dozers, excavators and specialty equipment. Some of these companies offer delivery and pick-up, and may charge for runtime hours versus days. You can focus on just the seat-time, with no burden performing maintenance.


Below are example rates from hiring out recent work, where the rate includes equipment plus professional operator:

$70 per hour - tractor work - shredding, discing, etc.

$75 per hour - CTL work - grading, spreading gravel, building pads, etc.

$125 per hour - dozer work - pond digging, large berms, etc.

$175 per hour - excavator work - large-scale digging and speciality work, lifting multiple tons, etc.


For construction tasks, obtain quotes from local contractors and ask for fixed-price bids per job. Place a dollar rate on your labor plus an hourly rate for your equipment. Compare your estimated run cost for the task versus hiring out.

A well-informed decision often results in an optimal outcome.

 

[mainenate]

Thanks folks.

Bought a Kubota L3240 this weekend with 600 hours. Looking to put a used 9' hoe on it now, and then I should be all set.

Nate

 

[edgarrian]

I have 8 acres wooded. I maintain my land with a 1705 massey. Move logs, box blading, moving material, clearing areas, wood cutting, bush hogging, and basically everything you will be doing. My advice would be to rent a larger mini excavator if you know how to operate them. They are much more equipped for building new trails, ditching, and the other tasks you mentioned. However if you dont then by all means use the backhoe option. I also use my tractor for my excavating business when i need to cut in driveways. My most recent driveway was 175ft long and needed to be lifted on one side. The owner came out and kind of frowned when he saw my unit for his job. I said you will be surprised how long this doesn't take. Three hours later his driveway was done and he was majorly surprised by my tractors capabilities.

I also went this route to stay away from the DPF. Plus I grew up on a farm and machinery so im pretty comfortable on equipment and had no worries as to how i could get this tractor to perform on my land. Many will talk bigger size tractor. I dont think its necessary.

I'm in the market for a tractor (with loader, and backhoe) to manage some wooded land that we'll eventually build a house on.
Tractor tasks are:
- Improving the existing 3/4 mile road, which is more of a woods road. Needs ditching improvement, including digging out where culverts are starting to get buried, so they don't start washing out; shaping throughout and adding some material to some parts. Figure I'll need a loader, hoe and box blade for these tasks.
- creating some trails (and possibly mowing them in the future) (some hoe work, and a bush-hog)
- construction tasks (trenching, site prep, materials handling etc) (backhoe, loader, forks)

I'm looking for something narrow enough to do some trail work, and eventually work around the house some. About 5' wide.
But I want it heavy enough to be able to do the work on the road (which will be ongoing), so I'm looking at ~3000# compacts, with 1200# bucket lift capacity.

I was initially thinking 30-35 hp, but I suspect the extra hp isn't really necessary for loader, backhoe and box blade work, where the PTO using up the power.
Without PTO requirements (mowing isn't going to be a big usage), I'm wondering if something like a JD 3025, or LS MT2-25, Bobcat CT225 or Kubota L2501 would be a good match. Construction tractors like the B26 get a lot done with 25 hp, so maybe that's plenty for me?

What do you think?

 

[Cranblue]

Congrats on your tractor purchase !! I have L4701 with hoe and loader great machine for its size I can manage 20 acres just fine.