Chop Saw

[Tom_Veatch]

Does anyone have any comments/suggestions/recommendations/etc. about the use of a metal cutting blade in a Sliding Compound Miter Saw (SCMS) for cutting metal shapes (channels, angles, etc.)?

To this point, a hacksaw is the only metal cutting saw I've used. Now, I'm looking at a project that requires some cutting beyond what I'm anxious to tackle with a hacksaw.

I have a 10" Hitachi SCMS I use for woodworking and have some reservations about using it for metal work. I can take steps to avoid mixing hot metal particles and sparks with wood sawdust, but I don't want to damage the saw. I could buy a saw specifically for metal work, but don't want to spend the money if what I already have will do the job.

 

[goaliedad]

I would not subject a woodworking saw to metal- even with a metal cutting blade- the shavings will be the death of your saw. I would look at an inexpensive dedicated metal cutoff saw if you're not going to have much use for it. Maybe buy some blades for a friend and use his?

I have an old delta wood chop saw that I may consider doing this with- but not my good one!

 

[kossetx]

Are you talking about using a composite blade or one of the new metal , metal sawing blades? Does you saw have any plasic on it? Either way, I think you should by a cheap metal saw. That hatachi isn't cheap.

 

[RonMar]

Some have done this, but the fundamental thing usually missed is that the wood saw is typically direct drive where the metal chop saw is usually geared. This results in a large difference in blade RPM/cutting edge speed. The metal chopsaw basically grinds/melts it's way thru the metal so the proper cutting edge speed is important for efficiency. As others have and will mention, the metal dust and shaveings from hacking on steel will not be healthy for your saw, not to mention the damage the rough, dirty steel will cause to the base of the saw. Now that being said, I do cut aluminum with my wood scopsaw using a high tooth count carbide blade, but aluminum is about the metal equivelant of black walnut in hardness and machineability. There are also no sparks, and the aluminum comes off in large chips, just like wood from a chainsaw.

I think you will be more satisfied cutting steel with just about any metal chop saw you would buy over using your good wood mitre saw. I have one from sears I have been using about 3 years now, think it was about $150, but with the right wheel(wheel that came with it was too thick) it melts right thru anything up to 4" without really working too hard.

 

[RonR]

Tom,

Quite few yrs ago, I put an abrasive blade in a table saw to cut z brick. It was the death of the motor............

I have an inexpensive chop saw (got it at tractor supply about 10 yrs ago) and it works well. I suspect harbor freight has them even cheaper now.

Haven't seen one that is easy to adjust angles on, which would be nice.

I always use mine outside as they do toss the sparks. And I always have a few blade around as they wear out pretty fast.

Great tool though.

Ron

 

[milkman]

I have a 14" Hitachi chop saw, but since I got this FREE SHIPPING — Northern Industrial Tools Compact Reciprocating Saw Kit | Reciprocating Saws | Northern Tool + Equipment as a gift, I got some 24T Bosch metal blades and I use it more to cut metal now than I use the chop saw.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Well, guys, you've successfully talked me out of ruining a good SCMS. One thing I hadn't thought of was Milkman's idea. I have a DeWalt Recip and may try a metal cutting blade in it. Wonder how precise/accurate a cut I can get with that. But, I suppose cutting fat and grinding to the mark can cure some cutting inaccuracy.

But, in case that doesn't work out, and since my experience level in hands on metal work is essential zilch what do y'all think of the merits of a circular type saw such as (not necessarily these specific brands):

Chop Saw

as compared to a horizontal/portable bandsaw such as:

Portable Bandsaw w/ Stand

 

[Ron25]

If you're using a hacksaw it can't be that much cutting. A metal bandsaw is great, but maybe you could use a 4 - 4.5" grinder with a cutting wheel.

Today I cut some 3/8x6" flat bar with one, about 5' worth. It took 5 wheels but since it wouldn't fit my bandsaw it did the job. Nice clean cut with a straight edge too. Get some ear plugs.

It just depends on your material.

 

[agh]

i just used my $49.00 2 hp 14 inch china-made cheap chop saw from harbour freight.(also bought the 9.95 2 yr warrenty w exchange) it cut some 1 and 1/4 in. square 11 gauge tubing to use on a trailer. worked fine for my infrequent metal projects. If it fails or quits I'll repost. agh

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I like a portable band saw. I have the Homier $50 version of the plastic frame Grizzly. The Grizzly looks like it has aluminum wheels where mine are plastic. I had to sand a crown on my wheels and shim the tensioner to get it to track good. Hopefully the Grizzly is set up to track better.
Otherwise it works good with a good bi-metal blade. I use mine freehand and can get reasonably good cuts. If I need a really square cut I mark it all the way around and follow the marks. A pipe wrap works great for marking round pipe. Control is very good, no sparks, etc.
Milwaukee and Porter-Cable porta-bands are MUCH better machines but of course cost several times as much. The ~$200 4x6 bandsaws are also popular. I love my grinders and sometimes use them for cutting but I hate the sparks and grit they sling.

 

[Willl]

I picked up one of these about 2 years ago from HF.
On my forth blade, so it aint been just sitting in the corner.
Works great for us backyard fabricators.

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

 

[texasjohn]

Willl has the answer... a Harbor Freight metal cutoff saw... it's on sale now at my local HF store for $49... and with a 10% discount I got as a preferred customer in mail flyer, it's even cheaper. I've had one several months, gone thru an entire blade and am on 2nd. It will run 2 hours solid without over heating. metal grunge everywhere. YOu don't want that in your wood saw. It takes a LOT of cutting to use up one blade. 5 blades are $20 at HF.

Other options you have are to dedicate a skill saw to metal cutting and get a metal cutoff abrasive blade for it.

Each of the above tools has its advantages.. mostly obvious... you gotta hold the skill saw but it can assume many positions and you can take the saw to the job... sometimes need to clamp the metal for cutting. The metal chop saw is stationary and you have to be able to move the material to the saw.

I have one of each of the above and use each depending on the job.

 

[RonMar]

You will find a reciprocating saw(sawzall) with bi-metal blades will cut very well, I use one all the time for single surface materials such a steel strap. They are ok for smaller tube, but because the blade will flex, it might follow two different tracks between the top surface and the botom surface resulting in an uneven cut.
The chopsaw you linked to should work fine. One of the reasons I chose the sears model I did was for the mitre adjustment. It had a easy to use lever/screw assembly and a large easy to read angle scale with pointer for easilly setting and repeating angles. It has a heavy cast base for stability. Avoid the pressed or sheetmetal based saws as they will warp/bend with clamping forces from the vise and cutting forces from the downward pressure on the handle. This particular saw also has a mechanism to release the threaded rod of the vise so you can quickly slide the jaws open or closed to accomidate your metal without having to crank it all the way in or out by hand. When you get it where you want it, you flip a lever then you can crank it tight with the handle. Here is a link to the modernized version of the one I use. They appear to have made some improvements such as adding a laser to help you position the cutting wheel easier as well as outrigger side rails to help support the metal as you are positioning and cutting. They also raised the price(maybe I bought mine on sale, can't remember).
Craftsman 21289 14 in. Abrasive Chop Saw with Laser at Sears.com

You can also cut with a cutoff wheel on a angle grinder, but wear good protective equipment(heavy cloths, full face shield and good gloves). I have spent a lot of time on ships in shipyards and the yard metal crafts use these all the time, and they break/shatter them all the time also.

Here are the latest projects(front/rear bumpers, flatbed and rock rails) I have been working on with chopsaw, welder, grinder(angle and die) and drill press, seen just before I primed the bed.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Looking good, Ron! Setting a pretty high standard there, aren't you?

Thanks to all of you for the ideas, suggestions, and recommendations. With the portable stuff I already have (and never thought of using like you guys have suggested), it may be overkill, but I really like the idea of a 4X6 bandsaw. I guess now's the time to put together a knock-out presentation and do a little belly-crawling for SWMBO...

 

[RonR]

Tom, here's the progression of metal "cutting" tools I've used:

Arc Welder
Cutting Torch
Milwalkee saws-all
Metal Chop saw

(I've also used a production metal band saw).

I think I get about equal accuracy with the chop saw as the saws all, especially if cutting tubing.

To me, the cat's meow would be the chop saw with the laser alignment and quick set angle adjustment. Mine has neither. I do have a Sear skill saw with the laser and I really like that.

Also, the chop saw is faster, so I like that! Don't have to wait for a part to show up from the band saw.............

My two cents--I'd go with the chop saw.

Ron

 

[patrick_g]

Just a couple weeks ago a foot of flames shot out of my Ryobi 14 inch chopsaw and it was DEAD. I too bought a HF unit and the warranty. If it fails, they give me a new one. I have a nice geared down "D" handle one on a wheeled stand for in the shop but like to have a super portable one to toss in the truck and run with a generator or to take to another job. If you like the woodworking saw don't even think about cutting metal with it. I bought a regular skill saw for 12-15 bucks at a pawn shop and I use abrasive cut off blades on it and it is still running but for how long is anyones guess. I got my money's worth the first day I used it, the rest is gravy. If you do buy a cheapie like the HF unit, do yourself a favor and buy the extended warranty so if it dies they hand you a new one. That is worth$10. Pat

 

[herringchoker]

I use a 14" chopsaw and wear the blades down to about 7" and then use them in an old skilsaw for cutting shapes I can't get into the chopsaw. For small cuts I use a 1/16 cutoff wheel in a 4-1/2" mini grinder. This system has worked well for me for many years now.

 

[JRP]

I used a Milwaukee 14" chop for years and still have it. They are made by Jeppeson which is Tiwaneese. sp? It fell over and the guard bent a little. I also think the handle is flimsy and the vise has to be adjusted with a wrench for large items. Akward. It has power.

Lowes had a Dewalt 14" chop saw with coupon for free 5" grinder. Now I have two chop saws and another grinder. The Dewalt had little power. It would spin up fine but would bog as soon as a little pressure was put on the cut. It was a big dissapointment because some of the features seem much better than the Milwaukee, but it lacks the power of a Milwaukee. I dropped it off at the Houston Dewalt factory service center for warranty repair on Tuesday. If it comes back working just as poor then I'll reply to this with an update, just before I put it on ebay with my story and a $200 price.

Chop saws are great. After you get it spend a little time tuning it up. Adjust with the vise and shims until it cuts perfectly square. IMO cuts are much more accurate than with sawsall. Sawsall blades are expensive.

The HF saw would be a good start if you don't have a budget for a name brand saw.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

JRP,

If both the Milwaukee and DeWalt saws have similar current ratings, e.g., both are 15amp motors, then they should develop very similar power - assuming they are the same voltage.

You didn't state the model numbers but the DeWalt website shows two 14" chop saws as current models. Both are spec'ed at 15amp so they probably develop about 2HP at the cutting edge. Ignore the HP ratings. Those are "Max HP" calculated from the locked rotor amperage draw of the motors and are useless for anything but marketing hype.

The Milwaukee site lists several current model 14" saws. You implied yours was several years old, and I assume, it would be no more powerful that the current models. They are also 120v/15a models. From that, I'd hazard a guess that your two saws should have comparable performance and the DeWalt was sick.

Hope they get it fixed for you.


(BTW, an electric motor producing the 4HP on 120v DeWalt claims for one of the 15amp saws will be drawing considerably more than 25amps - that's why I say ignore the hyped marketing HP)

 

[Spark_man]

I recently used a brand new DeWalt 14" chop saw (~$200 at Lowes) and it worked OK. But frankly, not any better than the $50 HF chop saw a friend of mine has. On the DeWalt, the angle adjustment fence uses a cam-clamp thingy to hold it in position - it is a POS and it broke within the first 15 minutes. While cutting some 3" stainless steel angle, the material had a bad tendency to "walk" toward the blade if you are cutting on an angle. I suspect this is the same case on most of the cheap chop saws. The fence is just not very well suited to clamping and securing stock to - it's not big enough and when the material is angled, the built in clamp doesn't hold very well. The reason I bring this up is that this is a VERY dangerous, so be careful out there when using these chop saws and cutting on an angle!

You would think with all the advances they have been making to wood cutting miter saws (even the cheap ones do a pretty good job) that someone could incorporate some of those features in a metal cutting chop saw.