Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand

   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand
  • Thread Starter
#141  
The EU decided competition with China needed to be stopped, so has proposed a 45% tariff on EVs from China.
China is de-facto putting an export tariff on lithium and kobalt, so there.

At my previous employer we built two long reach booms for Cat 6015B 140 tonne excavators, a Chinese company would use these to build a new highway in Africa. The job was cancelled so our customer sold these to an offshore dredging company instead, but thats how China got hold on Africas treasures, by debt-trap diplomacy:

Perform large infrastructural works that the countries credit rating doesnt warrant. Then after a year the obvious happens and the African country cannot pay their due, the Chinese demand the natural resources, guarded by their own mercenaries. Off course to be hauled away over that very same road.

The Chinese just played a better chess game than us Westerners, because they care less about sovereignity of 3rd world states. We simply cannot win the EV competition...
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #143  
Stellantis has put out so much crap that it will be hard to recover. Unless they adopt Toyota quality it's just a matter of time.
Late to this thread, and I understand your argument, but think it's wrong on two levels. First, Toyota indeed has very good quality, no arguing that, but "quality" in it's proper definition is not what the end user sees. After all, a design that fails early, but very predictably so, meets the criteria for "high quality". Quality simply means very tight control of your processes, and very low variation.

What the customer sees, and misinterprets as quality is Toyota's fault tolerance. They have a long legacy of designing vehicles that do not fail, even under the most adverse conditions of end-user negligence. Don't change your fluids on schedule? No problem... Toyota has left enough performance margin on the table to allow for it. It's really a marketing decision, more than a matter of quality, always favoring reliability over the factors which can work against it.

Second, like Toyota, Dodge also has a company ethos, and that has always been high performance to cost ratio. And because every design is a compromise, the things caught in the wake of this are indeed fault tolerance and manufacturing consistency. I am almost certain you can ignore oil change warnings longer on a Toyota Corolla than you could ever do with a Challenger Hellcat or a Trackhawk. And no one has ever admired Dodge for their consistent panel gaps or wonderfully-expensive paint work... they put those tightly-fisted dollars into pushing more horsepower out of their big supercharged Hemi engines.

So, come back around to a comparison between Toyota and Dodge, and I think there's really none to be made here. These two companies are serving almost completely-opposing markets, one looking for the uber-vanilla thing that can be ignored to a fault, and the other willing to sacrifice much in terms of performance or image. If Dodge were to try to become Toyota, it would be almost certain death for them, losing their own customers while their name prevents them from ever acquiring many of Toyota's former customers.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #144  
Late to this thread, and I understand your argument, but think it's wrong on two levels. First, Toyota indeed has very good quality, no arguing that, but "quality" in it's proper definition is not what the end user sees. After all, a design that fails early, but very predictably so, meets the criteria for "high quality". Quality simply means very tight control of your processes, and very low variation.

What the customer sees, and misinterprets as quality is Toyota's fault tolerance. They have a long legacy of designing vehicles that do not fail, even under the most adverse conditions of end-user negligence. Don't change your fluids on schedule? No problem... Toyota has left enough performance margin on the table to allow for it. It's really a marketing decision, more than a matter of quality, always favoring reliability over the factors which can work against it.

Second, like Toyota, Dodge also has a company ethos, and that has always been high performance to cost ratio. And because every design is a compromise, the things caught in the wake of this are indeed fault tolerance and manufacturing consistency. I am almost certain you can ignore oil change warnings longer on a Toyota Corolla than you could ever do with a Challenger Hellcat or a Trackhawk. And no one has ever admired Dodge for their consistent panel gaps or wonderfully-expensive paint work... they put those tightly-fisted dollars into pushing more horsepower out of their big supercharged Hemi engines.

So, come back around to a comparison between Toyota and Dodge, and I think there's really none to be made here. These two companies are serving almost completely-opposing markets, one looking for the uber-vanilla thing that can be ignored to a fault, and the other willing to sacrifice much in terms of performance or image. If Dodge were to try to become Toyota, it would be almost certain death for them, losing their own customers while their name prevents them from ever acquiring many of Toyota's former customers.

I'm not sure that Toyota owners in general ignore maintenance items anymore than any other brand owner. The problem with Stellantis is they believe their product is worth as much a Lexus so their products sit on the lots for extended periods.

Stellantis is currently performing poorly primarily due to issues in its North American market, where brands like Jeep, Ram, and Chrysler are struggling with high inventory, price hikes that customers are rejecting, product quality complaints, and a lack of focus on refreshing their vehicle lineups compared to competitors, leading to declining sales and significant profit drops; this has resulted in criticism towards the company's leadership and a plummeting stock price.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #145  
I'm not sure that Toyota owners in general ignore maintenance items anymore than any other brand owner. The problem with Stellantis is they believe their product is worth as much a Lexus so their products sit on the lots for extended periods.
That’s a shame. I remember when there was a months-long queue waiting for Hellcats, 2015-16. In fact, that was one of the major factors in my decision to order the SRT 392, as the quoted wait time was many months shorter.

Going from that to cars sitting on the lot many months, stinks of bad management. The cars themselves have been great, we presently own three Dodge vehicles, and they’ve been consistently more reliable and more fun than any other brand we’ve owned. We usually buy European cars and American trucks.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #146  
That’s a shame. I remember when there was a months-long queue waiting for Hellcats, 2015-16. In fact, that was one of the major factors in my decision to order the SRT 392, as the quoted wait time was many months shorter.

Going from that to cars sitting on the lot many months, stinks of bad management. The cars themselves have been great, we presently own three Dodge vehicles, and they’ve been consistently more reliable and more fun than any other brand we’ve owned. We usually buy European cars and American trucks.
Totally agree.
The vehicles are very good, but the guys on the 7th floor seem to be lacking.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #147  
Chrysler/Jeep/Ram very innovative, but poor oversight kind of reminds me of International Harvester in the late 70’s.
They built excellent equipment with lots of innovation, but their corporate level decision making led to their demise.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #148  
My last 3 pickups have been Dodge/RAM an 2002 Dodge Dakota with the 4.7 V8 and a 5 speed, put 213,000 on that little thing and she got over loaded and over work a few times and run like a little hot rod much of the time. Other then front brake calipers and a set of ball joints almost no repairs.
Then my 2015 RAM 1500 with the little V6 Diesel, again a very reliable and good driving vehicle with good mileage for a pickup, kept her for 98,000 miles then traded her for my current 2019 RAM, again a very reliable and good riding decent working gussied up pickup.
That said I'm not sure what I would buy for another pickup at this time, and not as a perceived weakness or fault of the trucks but I completely and totally dislike immensely a damned black interior which to my knowledge is all that RAM is offering now.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #149  
I have 12,000 miles left on my 2020 Ram warranty.
Thinking about extending the warranty versus trading on a 2025 when the 2025 rams finally hit the street.
Extending the warranty through Ram will probably be $4,000. Much cheaper than buying new, but my 2020 will fetch a decent amount to a local buyer. Still looks & drives excellent.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #150  
I have the 8 year 125,000 mile on my 2019 so I should be good till 2027 but I'm often just browsing around keeping my eyes open.
 

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