CK 25 will not start

ritcheyvs · Sep 17, 2018

Wishful thinking. These latest observations indicate one or more broken gear teeth on a control sleeve. The rack should (must) be able to move smoothly. Remove the IP and replace all three control sleeves with new.

Added: On a positive note, you can get the engine to run so you can remove the loader, which makes the IP R/R much easier. You can also be able to move the tractor to a place suitable for the repair work. Just don't let the engine over rev.

gravel13 · Sep 17, 2018

Yeah, the more I think back to 2010 when it happened I'm wondering if they only replaced the one that was broken instead of all three back then. What's the odds of have to have this done twice inside 579 hrs. I was telling a friend(who is pretty knowledgeable about this kind of stuff) about what was going on and that I may pull the IP to have it rebuilt and he said what about timing. I said I haven't got that far. So what is the deal if I pull the IP should I attempt this or send it to someone. Can someone explain the timing thing?

ritcheyvs · Sep 17, 2018

When the IP is first built, it is calibrated on a special "Diesel bench" so each cylinder "fires" at the same travel/position of the roller tappets. This requires professional expertise and equipment; not a DIY job. But as long as the IP is reassembled with all parts going back into their original location the original calibration is still good. Of course, re calibration can't hurt (correct for wear) but it should not be needed.

The injection timing is set by the thickness of the shim between the IP and the crankcase. As long as you keep those sane shims and torque the IP bolts to spec the timing should not change.

Your friend may be familiar with automotive Diesels which quite are different. The cam that drives your tractor IP is in the block so removing the IP does nor effect the cam timing. The automotive IP cam is inside the IP and it is typically driven by the timing chain. That style IP needs timing to be reset after installing the IP.

gravel13 · Sep 17, 2018

OK, thanks. I was also just reading your other thread where you rebuilt your IP. Are the part numbers for the gear teeth all the same for these IPs? Meaning a CK25 vs CK30 vs DK45?? Or do I need to try to find the number on my IP that thepumpguy had mentioned in one of these threads?

Also, what is the torque of the IP bolts? or actually any of the bolts like to the intake manifold? I haven't finished reading all the threads so wasn't sure if it was in those.

ritcheyvs · Sep 17, 2018

As far as I know, all of these IPs use the same control sleeve. I don't recall the torque values. Do you have a service manual?

Additional: If you decide to rebuild the IP yourself, just do one cylinder at a time. That way parts can't get swapped between cylinders. In addition to calibration, the plungers and cylinders are matched sets and may jam or have excessive bypass if swapped. During this process, it's important to avoid getting dirt or grit in the IP, hard lines, or injectors. I pressure-washed my engine before I started the job.

gravel13 · Sep 17, 2018

ritcheyvs said:
Do you have a service manual?

No sir. Just you fine folks at TBN.

thepumpguysc · Sep 18, 2018

If you lost throttle control, DO NOT run it.. Its the pump, prob. lost another segment??
Just take it off & manually move the control rack on the pump back & forth.. It should fall/move freely..
Your NOT gonna get any "warranty" on that if that's what your thinkin??{broken segment} Most have a 1 year warranty regardless of hrs..
& if its sticking because of FUEL.. Well that's on YOU..
I'd be happy to have a look at it/repair it for you.. Just send me an email or PM.. TPG

gravel13 · Sep 18, 2018

thepumpguysc said:
If you lost throttle control, DO NOT run it.. Its the pump, prob. lost another segment??
Just take it off & manually move the control rack on the pump back & forth.. It should fall/move freely..
Your NOT gonna get any "warranty" on that if that's what your thinkin??{broken segment} Most have a 1 year warranty regardless of hrs..
& if its sticking because of FUEL.. Well that's on YOU..
I'd be happy to have a look at it/repair it for you.. Just send me an email or PM.. TPG

Thanks for the offer TPG. My CK25 is a 2005 and well past warranty. Heck, Kioti wouldn't even help cover the labor cost back in 2010 when the IP failed with 238 hrs on the meter. Since then I have been using the additive that my new dealer recommended and the "sticking" was me just hoping that could have been the problem, meaning possibly and easier fix. I have been contemplating replacing the control sleeves my self and I am in no rush, meaning doing one at a time so as not to screw it up. After doing valve adjustments on my kids 4 stroke dirtbikes, I've learned to take my time and check twice. I also was able to locate an online copy of the service manual so I have the torque sequence and values too now.

ritcheyvs · Sep 18, 2018

The sticky post at the top of this section has a link to a site (it's a table) that includes multiple potential sources for new control sleeves. Some are much cheaper than others. The ones I got from Conestoga Diesel were on the expensive side but also included the O-ring and washer for rebuilding the delivery valves. But don't mess with the delivery valves unless they are leaking; save those parts in case one leaks in the future.

gravel13 · Sep 18, 2018

Yeah I was going to go the "only fix it if it's broke" approach. But, I am going to replace all 3 control sleeves as I'm thinking back in 2010 when the dealer sent it out they only replaced the broken one, not all of them. But yes, I did see the link for the potential sources. Thanks.