CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

[Mysfyt]

Ventilation holes? Escape holes is more like it. I was racing a Nissan once when the number three rod decided it was sick and tired of living in the only **** it had ever known. It waited for the right moment and made a break for it. A bunch of oil witnessed the rod making its getaway and after a split-second look-around for the guards decided it was now or never and took off after the rod. It landed on the header collector and it wasn't but a few seconds after that I was making MY escape from the vehicle.

Can't post the link from my iPad, but google 'locomotive piston in house'. Kind of changes the perspective of ventilating a motor.

 

[Mysfyt]

Ventilation holes? Escape holes is more like it. I was racing a Nissan once when the number three rod decided it was sick and tired of living in the only **** it had ever known. It waited for the right moment and made a break for it. A bunch of oil witnessed the rod making its getaway and after a split-second look-around for the guards decided it was now or never and took off after the rod. It landed on the header collector and it wasn't but a few seconds after that I was making MY escape from the vehicle.

Can't post the link from my iPad, but google 'locomotive piston in house'. Kind of changes the perspective of ventilating a motor.

 

[jimmyj]

Thanks everybody for your concern and interest.

Yesterday I was contacted by Kioti customer service via email and also had a phone call from the dealership. Here's the news.

Apparently this matter went all the way back to Daedong in Korea. After careful review, they have decided to replace this engine with a new one, supposedly shipping from the US office in North Carolina, but that's not confirmed. It might have to be sent overseas from Korea. Not sure yet which is correct. Daedong has also stipulated that the dealer will provide the labor for the engine swap. From what I have gleaned through this process, it's my understanding that each dealership is annually rewarded by Kioti with "goodwill" dollars, earned by meeting sales quotas and whatnot. That money is reserved for cases like mine, when they need to pay their own mechanics for this type of in-house work. So, the dealer isn't really out anything here because Kioti provides a kind of safety net through the earned goodwill money. Maybe this is a common practice for all manufacturers; I don't know.

Obviously it's still going to take some time before the CK35 is ready to come home, but you can imagine what a huge relief this is for me. Those of you on this forum who urged me to contact Kioti, and to go back to the dealer, are the ones who are directly responsible for securing this very fortunate turn of events for me. I can't begin to thank you enough. In the beginning when I started this thread, I was ready to write off this tractor and recover what little money out of it that I could get from its broken condition. You folks convinced me to pursue it further. Everything changed in a few hours one afternoon when I spoke to Melissa at Kioti and then drove back to the dealership with hat in hand. That part wasn't easy... I had fired them for ignoring me for eighteen days, and then I had to go back and re-hire them. But, it certainly paid off to do so.

Once again, many thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion, especially a few key folks here who offered some seriously good advice -- you know who you are. There's still more to follow regarding this issue... if I can figure out how to do it, I'll upload some video of the tractor running before it was diagnosed (before I knew how bad it was) to demonstrate what it sounded like, on the slim outside chance that anyone else ever suffers this problem. Meanwhile, those of you who speculated that Kioti would acquit themselves nicely and take the high road by providing out-of-warranty support were absolutely right, as were those of you who called for engine replacement. I did not expect and certainly could not have asked for a better outcome from Kioti.

Thanks Kioti and especially all you TBN folks.

Great news. I still have a little faith in karma and people doing the right thing so this is wonderful.

 

[ritcheyvs]

It ain't over 'til it's over, but I applaud Kioti/Daedong's decision on this. Kioti sells great tractors; I know, my DK45s is one. And (like all manufacturers) they occasionally make a bad one. So I'm very glad to see them support this customer when that happened. I for one, will repeat this story the nest time a Deere (or Kubota, etc.) snob says Kioti is inferior.

 

[Coyote machine]

A lawsuit here costs $23.50 to file and we have paralegal consumer groups who will help with the paperwork. I think you are (and have been from the start) confused about who the consumer would be suing in Texas courts. You sue the dealer not some Asian company 10,000 miles east of the Alamo. Dealers don't like going to court. It is time consuming. There are no consumer rights groups to help them with the legal briefs and Kioti likely wouldn't completely cover the costs of attorneys if at all.

You have absolutely no clue as to what I know about courts and suits. I'm not confused about anything. Small claims suits filed wherever won't affect Kioti or one of their dealer's. There is NOTHING to sue for, and there never was; get over it, and the whole Texas thing.
Find something else to do other than thinking you know anything about me or what I know about Kioti or lawsuits. Kioti came through, exactly as I predicted, with the exception of doing better by their customer then I had expected.
Let it go.

 

[Teachu2]

You have absolutely no clue as to what I know about courts and suits. I'm not confused about anything. Small claims suits filed wherever won't affect Kioti or one of their dealer's. There is NOTHING to sue for, and there never was; get over it, and the whole Texas thing.
Find something else to do other than thinking you know anything about me or what I know about Kioti or lawsuits. Kioti came through, exactly as I predicted, with the exception of doing better by their customer then I had expected.
Let it go.

I agree - there was no compelling legal basis for a suit, as the machine was clearly out of warranty. That's why the OP needed to make an appeal to the person authorized to approve out-of-warranty repairs, and the toughest part of that is reaching that level of management. Kioti was NOT legally responsible for repairing or replacing this out of warranty engine, but chose to do so to protect and enhance their brand reputation - which is why MANY business decisions are made. Threads like this one will provide more positive advertising for Kioti than they ever could have purchased for the cost of an engine, and they will be able to analyze a real-world failure to determine if it was a fluke, a production error, or a design flaw. All that, almost certainly, factored into the decision to make their customer whole.

Kioti may never determine what caused this failure with absolute certainty, but their best shot is if they have the complete engine. They may decide that this is a rare enough event as to be unworthy of intense investigation, but I doubt it. Engineers love a puzzle, and will do their best to find evidence that places the blame on a supplier or assembly person.

Lots of factors involved, but a lawsuit wasn't a significant risk for Kioti. They weighed the facts as best they could, and came up with a decision that giving excellent customer service is in their best interest as a company. Very honorable on their part, and smart business. An old adage in customer service is "Give a customer great service and they will tell a couple people. Give poor service and they'll tell twenty."

Kioti is getting a lot more than two on this one. And the OP is getting MORE than he hoped for - think he'll recommend Kioti anytime it comes up? It's been 40 years since I first heard that Airstream story, and I still remember it.

You have to wonder what Deere or Kubota would have done. We can't know, but we will know what Kioti did this time. I suspect they made a shrewd investment by doing so.

 

[PILOON]

Very well stated TEACHU2

But with internet the adage "Give a customer great service and they will tell a couple people. Give poor service and they'll tell twenty." may no longer apply.
Just look at the number of hits on this topic.

 

[kiotiken]

Great news. Just found this thread but based on my own experience with Kioti, this outcome isn't a shocker for me. I first owned a nightmare CK30 that I bought new in 2012. The dealer was great servicing all the warranty issues that came up initially, then Kioti itself stepped up when the issues became much larger and more expensive. In the end, Kioti approved a full HST transmission replacement with labour. Then they sent me a couple hats, a Kioti jacket and Kioti hoodie to boot. I was too was more than satisfied with their response to say the least.

As a result, I had no hesitation buying another Kioti or recommending the brand to anybody who would listen. Glad this all worked out for you, even if you're without a tractor for a few months.

 

[Teachu2]

Very well stated TEACHU2

But with internet the adage "Give a customer great service and they will tell a couple people. Give poor service and they'll tell twenty." may no longer apply.
Just look at the number of hits on this topic.

No doubt the Internet spreads the word faster and farther, but the idea still holds true. As far as hits, remember that's hits, not people. Some viewers may hit the thread several times a day.

 

[Mousefield]

No doubt the Internet spreads the word faster and farther, but the idea still holds true. As far as hits, remember that's hits, not people. Some viewers may hit the thread several times a day.

True but still many thousands of people and then the people they tell.

 

[Coyote machine]

Yes, Kioti Ken is another example of Kioti's direct intervention in a situation gone bad that was rectified by a persistent TBN membership encouraging KK to stick with the brand through the nightmare until full resolution was accomplished. I had forgotten about that excellent outcome until he brought it back on the radar here. There too I was fully engaged in urging KK to stick with his dealer and Kioti for the full ride.

I can't address what other companies might do in the same situations; but I can say Kioti has consistently done what was best for their customers. In the end, that is what matters. The rest is noise.

 

[ksbrdmkr]

Datsun came through for me on a cam lobe that went flat, worn down to some air pockets, out of warranty with a new new replacement cam that I installed on my Datsun 2000. It is great when the company's stand behind their products.

 

[CenTex Chris]

An update... good news and bad news (not too bad, just annoying):

Got a call from the service manager today that the CK35 is ready to go. That's the good news. The bad news is that the dealership is not covering the labor after all. Not sure if he forgot what he told me before, or if they simply reconsidered and decided not to apply their goodwill fund that I had previously described. It's no big deal... I don't have any leverage here anyway. I'm to cover ten hours of labor (although he says they put about 16 into it, and I have no reason to doubt him, so that seems fair enough). With some parts that I'm also getting billed for, it comes to $650. I also have to cover the cost of shipping the engine from North Carolina to Texas. That's another $165. So I owe them $815.

You know what, I'm fine with it. For a new motor that's a perfectly good deal. I'm happy to pay.

I'll drag the flatbed up there tomorrow, but unfortunately I won't get any seat time for awhile yet... I have to jet off to The Big Apple on business (yes, work... gotta pay for this stuff somehow) and won't be back for ten days or so. It'll have to stay on the trailer while I'm gone. Will let y'all know when I can get behind the wheel again finally. Much appreciated as always!

 

[sd455dan]

I agree - there was no compelling legal basis for a suit, as the machine was clearly out of warranty. That's why the OP needed to make an appeal to the person authorized to approve out-of-warranty repairs, and the toughest part of that is reaching that level of management. Kioti was NOT legally responsible for repairing or replacing this out of warranty engine, but chose to do so to protect and enhance their brand reputation - which is why MANY business decisions are made. Threads like this one will provide more positive advertising for Kioti than they ever could have purchased for the cost of an engine, and they will be able to analyze a real-world failure to determine if it was a fluke, a production error, or a design flaw. All that, almost certainly, factored into the decision to make their customer whole.

Kioti may never determine what caused this failure with absolute certainty, but their best shot is if they have the complete engine. They may decide that this is a rare enough event as to be unworthy of intense investigation, but I doubt it. Engineers love a puzzle, and will do their best to find evidence that places the blame on a supplier or assembly person.







EXACTLY- very well said









Lots of factors involved, but a lawsuit wasn't a significant risk for Kioti. They weighed the facts as best they could, and came up with a decision that giving excellent customer service is in their best interest as a company. Very honorable on their part, and smart business. An old adage in customer service is "Give a customer great service and they will tell a couple people. Give poor service and they'll tell twenty."

Kioti is getting a lot more than two on this one. And the OP is getting MORE than he hoped for - think he'll recommend Kioti anytime it comes up? It's been 40 years since I first heard that Airstream story, and I still remember it.

You have to wonder what Deere or Kubota would have done. We can't know, but we will know what Kioti did this time. I suspect they made a shrewd investment by doing so.

Totally agree, and this was a great outcome for the OP-

Kioti certainly acquitted themselves admirably,

edit- after reading about the dealer (unilaterally) modifying the agreement -not nearly as impressed with them as Kioti corporate

 

[kiotiken]

An update... good news and bad news (not too bad, just annoying):

Got a call from the service manager today that the CK 35 is ready to go. That's the good news. The bad news is that the dealership is not covering the labor after all. Not sure if he forgot what he told me before, or if they simply reconsidered and decided not to apply their goodwill fund that I had previously described. It's no big deal... I don't have any leverage here anyway. I'm to cover ten hours of labor (although he says they put about 16 into it, and I have no reason to doubt him, so that seems fair enough). With some parts that I'm also getting billed for, it comes to $650. I also have to cover the cost of shipping the engine from North Carolina to Texas. That's another $165. So I owe them $815.

You know what, I'm fine with it. For a new motor that's a perfectly good deal. I'm happy to pay.

I'll drag the flatbed up there tomorrow, but unfortunately I won't get any seat time for awhile yet... I have to jet off to The Big Apple on business (yes, work... gotta pay for this stuff somehow) and won't be back for ten days or so. It'll have to stay on the trailer while I'm gone. Will let y'all know when I can get behind the wheel again finally. Much appreciated as always!

That's very disappointing. I agree that $815 for a new engine, installed, is a great deal but for me, that's not really the point. An agreement is an agreement and it should be honored and AFTER the work is done is not the right time to be changing your mind about the costs. I'm very fortunate that I have a great dealer. My experience with Kioti itself has surpassed my expectations and so has my dealer. I'm glad Kioti has given you the same level of support, too bad your dealer hasn't.

Like you say, fantastic out come. Enjoy your "new" tractor.

 

[LD1]

That's very disappointing. I agree that $815 for a new engine, installed, is a great deal but for me, that's not really the point. An agreement is an agreement and it should be honored and AFTER the work is done is not the right time to be changing your mind about the costs.
.

Agreed.

I'd be a little upset if I took my tractor in, and it was agreed upon that warranty would cover things and I wouldnt owe anything.

Then two weeks later when tractor is done only to find out that they changed their minds and now I owe almost a grand for labor and some parts.

That would tend to irritate me.

 

[tman1020]

I think you have the right attitude about things and glad to hear you got your tractor back. No matter how you look at it that's a great outcome to a bad situation. Maybe you can have your neighbor get it off the trailer and try it out for you while you're gone.

Just kidding!!!

 

[jlgurr]

I think you have the right attitude about things and glad to hear you got your tractor back. No matter how you look at it that's a great outcome to a bad situation. Maybe you can have your neighbor get it off the trailer and try it out for you while you're gone. Just kidding!!!

I'll venture a guess the neighbor is relieved.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[C4Ranch]

An update... good news and bad news (not too bad, just annoying):

Got a call from the service manager today that the CK 35 is ready to go. That's the good news. The bad news is that the dealership is not covering the labor after all. Not sure if he forgot what he told me before, or if they simply reconsidered and decided not to apply their goodwill fund that I had previously described. It's no big deal... I don't have any leverage here anyway. I'm to cover ten hours of labor (although he says they put about 16 into it, and I have no reason to doubt him, so that seems fair enough). With some parts that I'm also getting billed for, it comes to $650. I also have to cover the cost of shipping the engine from North Carolina to Texas. That's another $165. So I owe them $815.

You know what, I'm fine with it. For a new motor that's a perfectly good deal. I'm happy to pay.

I'll drag the flatbed up there tomorrow, but unfortunately I won't get any seat time for awhile yet... I have to jet off to The Big Apple on business (yes, work... gotta pay for this stuff somehow) and won't be back for ten days or so. It'll have to stay on the trailer while I'm gone. Will let y'all know when I can get behind the wheel again finally. Much appreciated as always!

U and I have the same mindset on these things.

Look at it as an expensive oil change that erases all of your prior use/hours on the engine.

 

[Fawken]

You can do as you choose. And I certainly will not engage in any sort of discussion with those who seem to think this board is a place for mindless arguing. You have the agreement well documented and my own course of action (which I have EVERY right to express) would be to insist upon them honoring what was agreed to by ALL parties. New tractors, autos, homes, etc. come with both a manufacturer's warranty and an implied warranty against latent defects- which both Kioti and the dealership admitted was the case.