Class III Thermostat Location

[markie61]

OK. All right. Guess what?

My TC40D had been running cool for the first 20 hours I have owned it, so (per the advice of many TBNers) I clamped off the bypass hose and was amazed how the temperature stayed within the middle of the green zone. I even commented that I could see the needle move when the thermostat opened and closed.

Well.....

Today, I ran for over 2 hours and the temp guage was at the bottom of the green zone. I guess the thermostat opened once too often and the pin/ball is keeping it open/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif.

I haven't yet received my parts/service manuals and I have never replaced a thermostat. I searched the forum to see if someone said where it located, but no luck there.

Can anyone answer: Where is it located - upper or lower hose? Radiator end or engine end? How much coolant will I lose getting it out or unstuck?

Thanks in advance!

Mark

 

[jinman]

It's on the engine where the upper radiator hose attaches. There is a flanged adapter held on the engine with two bolts. I'd drain about a gallon of fluid into a clean container and that should take care of your fluid loss worries. After you finish with the thermostat, you can pour your coolant right back into the radiator. I'd suggest you get a gasket before trying to remove the thermostat. You might get lucky and not ruin the old one, but I wouldn't bet on it. Good luck.

 

[markie61]

Jinman,
Thanks for the tips! I need to call my dealer next week and find out where my manuals are.
Mark

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>I need to call my dealer next week and find out where my manuals are.</font color=blue>
I ordered both manuals, Repair and Parts, for my TC25D directly from New Holland. I called the number in the back of the Owner's Manual. I waited weeks. In fact it took them so long, they sent me a post card asking if I still wanted them. Apparently, they wait for enough orders to make a printing run worthwhile, or so I was told. In the end, NH said they no longer printed the parts manual, so all I got was the Repair manuals.

 

[markie61]

Good information to know, MikePA. I negotiated the manuals in with my deal, so they are already paid for. I wish they'd publish them on CD-ROM - it would be nice to have them on my computer and print out pages as I need them. Then when they got all greasy, I could just dispose of them.
Too much to expect?
Mark

 

[RickB]

All good advice here. You need only to free the thermostat pin/ball to allow the stat to close, then orient the stat so the pin/ball is closest to the cylinder head, rather than away from it. The coolant flow is lesser on that side, and it won't stick open again. Buying a new t'stat will get you the same thing all over again. If it is not oriented properly, a new one will stick open, too

 

[markie61]

Thanks, RickB,
I sort-of planned on doing that, but if I can get a free spare, I will. I may try the rivet/hole thing and want an extra if I mess it up. If I got to do the labor, I'm going to do part of it on NH's nickel. Make 'em pay, plus they get the feedback.
Mark

 

[djradz]

Mark, you can check to see if it's stuck without removing the housing Jim is talking about. Just remove the upper hose at the engine and look down in. The thermostat is right there and you'll be able to see if it is partially open. When mine was stuck, the engine never even got into the lower zone - almost stayed at the bottom.

 

[markie61]

Thanks, djradz. Do you lose any coolant doing removing the top hose?

BTW, I think it unstuck itself the day before yesterday, but yesterday it was cool again. I guess the ball sometimes comes loose by itself, but then gets stuck again.

Mark

 

[djradz]

You will loose some coolant. Like J Inman says, drain some out. With the dual drain valve on the right side of the block, this is faily easy. Crack the radiator cap and it will come out quite fast. I'd take out a little less than a gallon to be sure.

I'm a litle suspicious of your's being the problem since with mine, in never warmed up and therefore never became unstuck. The little the t'stat remains cracked when stuck seemed to be enough to keep the engine from getting warm enough for the t'stat to again open and loosen the ball. Again, if you look down the t'stat housing, you'll be able to see. Just use a clean container (rinsed milk jug works great) to put the fluid in and then you'll be able to add it right back when done checking.

 

[MikePA]

Just a reminder...If you do have to add anti-freeze, make sure it's for diesel engines.

 

[jinman]

<font color=blue>If you do have to add anti-freeze, make sure it's for diesel engines</font color=blue>

Okay, Mike. I'll bite...
What makes antifreeze different for diesels than any other engine? Is the cast iron in the block any different? ..or the aluminum parts? ...or is it high compression anti-freeze? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I think someone is "pulling your leg" on this one, but hey, I've been wrong before.

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>What makes antifreeze different for diesels than any other engine?</font color=blue>
It has additives to prevent cavitation. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=oil&Number=173168&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=cavitation&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=173168>Here's</A> another thread that discussed this a couple of months ago.

 

[jinman]

Mike, I stick by my previous assertion that for our tractors, there is no need to put in additives. As a matter of fact, my TC45 owner's manual only specifies winter/summer coolant at a 50/50 mix. What it does say is to drain and flush the coolant system on an annual basis. I did this as a result of busting a hose, but otherwise I'd probably not noticed it in my manual. Also, TSC sells their own brand of antifreeze (Traveller) which has the following notice:

Meets or exceeds these specifications: ASTM D-4985, Caterpillar, Cummins 90T8-4, Mack Truck, John Deere H2481, H24C1, and SAE J1941.

This antifreeze also has corrosion inhibiters and defoamers. I do not know this for a fact, but I would be willing to bet that all major brands of antifreeze meet the diesel manufacture's specifications. If you are in the antifreeze business like Prestone, you are sure not going to miss the segment of the market driving diesels. It's my opinion that you can find someone who makes an additive for almost every kind of fluid you add to a tractor. You'll also find folks who use it and say you "gotta have it." Since my owner's manual doesn't call it out, I'm not going to use it. If your manual says you should use it, by all means, use it as prescribed.

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>If you are in the antifreeze business like Prestone, you are sure not going to miss the segment of the market driving diesels. </font color=blue>
Actually, I'm not sure Prestone sells a diesel-specific antifreeze, but link with an explanation for why there's a special antifreeze for diesels with wet sleeve liners. If the antifreeze meets the manufacturer's specs then it's the right one. Since I can't remember all the specs, I just pick up a gallon of FleetGuard. I know it meets them.

Correction: I received an email back from Prestone and they said;
Yes. We do make antifreeze coolant for the Specific Diesel application. This product is called Prestone Heavy Duty Antifreeze Coolant (AF-977 HD)

 

[jinman]

Well Mike, I've certainly learned more about antifreeze than I ever thought I would, but there are still a couple of questions I have to answer before I give you full credit and sit down to eat my plate full of crow. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I'm wondering if our under 2-liter diesels are the "heavy duty" engines talked about in the specification, ASTM 4895, and also if we have pressed in wet sleeve liners in our small engines. I'll have to go to my repair manual to find out unless someone knows this and "chimes" in with the info. You might say that the Fleetguard antifreeze is good for everything, but Cummins has stated that the Texaco extended life coolant (TELC) may be causing problems with silicone seals. What's that all about? /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif Does the Fleetguard and Texaco coolant use the same SCAs?

So, you are absolutely correct that there are special formulations of antifreeze for heavy duty engines. I didn't know it, but now, thanks to you, I do. I'm just still not sure their application is needed. As I said before, the TSC Traveller brand meets ASTM D4985 and it doesn't cost a fortune. If I use that and change antifreeze on a yearly basis as suggested by all manufacturers, I'll probably never see a coolant system failure associated with antifreeze. What do you think?/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>I'm wondering if our under 2-liter diesels are the "heavy duty" engines talked about in the specification, ASTM 4895, and also if we have pressed in wet sleeve liners in our small engines.</font color=blue>
I wondered about these 2 items too. I did a little searching on NH, JD and Kubota sites. The only one that mentioned sleeve type was JD. All of their Compact Tractors, up to the 4710, use cast in block liners and not wet sleeve. Their Utility tractors are the first class that uses wet sleeve liners. So, maybe we're both right, there is special antifreeze for diesels, but compact tractor owners don't need to use it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif