Grading Clean up and grade (?) a wooded lot with Loads-A-Rocks . . .

[joea99]

Might not be a good title or the right forum, but, got about between 1, 2 acres of treed land behind the house. Soild is VERY rocky with stones of all sizes, some pretty hefty. Trees of all sizes and varieties.

The intent is to be able to put up an out building for work and storage and, maybe, make an area suitable for a small food garden plot.

Already been cutting down some of the saplings on up to 8" or so and cutting them stove length. I've had some old timers tell me to just drop 'm and leave 'm till the leaves brown up, then cut as they would then be ready to burn in the fall. That's a tale for another day.

I found digging out roots with a normal bucket to be almost a fool's errand. It's only a B21 after all. But, I did some internet digging and found BXpanded that makes a "ripper tooth" for about $300. Finally got around to using it and, after a bit of practice find it works every bit as well as the maker and the comments claim. Almost fun now.

Gotta be careful as a lot of the trees are very close and no doubt have interlocked roots. But that's not really why I'm here today.

The unpleasant surprise has been the far greater number of rocks than imagined. The bigger ones, say over a foot wide, I just try to move off to the side for now. A bit dicey with the tooth as I am fearful of bending it if not careless.

Guess the question really comes down to ways to clear a lot of the smaller stuff out? Not to "topsoil" grade, but reasonable to where you could stick in a spade or shovel and not hit a rock every time.

I've seen static screen units where you dump on top of a slanted screen and let gravity be your friend. Even those are very pricey, to me. Tractor has a 4 in 1 bucket and I was thinking of making a temporary screen out of rebar I have lying around, to fit the bucket, allowing it to scoop then open wide sift and dump. Not thought that out yet, may not by practical given the geometry(s) involved.

So, looking for comments and suggestions.

 

[Jstpssng]

From what you say about how much rock you're talking about to level a spot as well as you can and have topsoil hauled in. Then buy a couple of loads of gravel for the out building.
I've got a 2 acre field and after 18 years of trying to create a viable garden spot, last year I started putting in raised beds for my most important garden plants.
It might be easier, quicker, and a lot less wear and tear on your tractor.

 

[joea99]

From what you say about how much rock you're talking about to level a spot as well as you can and have topsoil hauled in. Then buy a couple of loads of gravel for the out building.
I've got a 2 acre field and after 18 years of trying to create a viable garden spot, last year I started putting in raised beds for my most important garden plants.
It might be easier, quicker, and a lot less wear and tear on your tractor.

That probably makes more sense. I see several neighbors doing the raised bed thing, but kind a saw them as "city folk" doing the "hip" thing. That and I'm known to be a stubborn, so and so.

I should content myself to ripping out as many trees and roots as seems sane, which will likely leave me enough loose craters to make the leveling out part easier.

 

[duffer]

Even if you were to get the rocks cleared from the top 4"-6" of soil, you'll have them "grow" right back in a couple of years, due to your freeze/thaw cycles. Rocks have a way of coming to the surface when frost gets into the ground.

Raised beds, and a gravel pad for your storage shed is a good and smart way to go.

Just my 2¢.

 

[M59]

joea99,

Sounds like clearing that many rocks from 1 to 2 acres is a bigger job ( time wise ) than a B21 is capable of. At 43,560 square feet per acre and assuming a 4 foot wide root rake grapple and only working the top 4 inches of soil and 100 liner feet of clearing per hour, you are looking at 109 hours per acre. OUCH.
How much is your time worth? Time to start thinking about renting larger machine with more weight ( traction ), horsepower, capable of wider root rake, and greater capacity of pushing root rake thru soil to remove rocks. I am including 2 pics of machine and root rake I use to clean stumps and rocks ( anything larger than 8 inches) from soil and then move off to spoil pile. After "big" rocks removed then I go over it with power rake to remove everything else and leave soil level and ready for planting. A 8K lb or larger trackhoe is capable of running both the larger root rake grapple and the power rake. L pic gives you some idea of grapple tooth spacing and R pic is the power rake aka Harley Rake. You will find you can clear vines and low brush from land by dragging the top backwards by floating the top on ground or driving forwards and using lower teeth to to clean rocks buried up 6 to 8 inches below ground level in single pass. Depth will depend upon machine weight, horsepower, and root rake width.

I can clean, using root rake, about 1/8 acre of large rock ( over 8 inch size ) per hour and final clean and level the same area per hour using power rake. The M59 is a 11K+ pound machine with 60 hp.

Hope this helps with your project.

 

[jeff9366]

You could hire a Skid Steer or Compact Track Loader equipped with a skeleton rock bucket. After the rocks are sieved out and hauled away you will need to replace spoil with good soil. Likely a fairly expensive evolution.

VIDEOS:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=skid+steer+skeleton+rock+bucket

Putting in raised beds would be easier, quicker, and a lot less wear and tear on your light tractor.

 

[joea99]

joea99,

Sounds like clearing that many rocks from 1 to 2 acres is a bigger job ( time wise ) than a B21 is capable of. At 43,560 square feet per acre and assuming a 4 foot wide root rake grapple and only working the top 4 inches of soil and 100 liner feet of clearing per hour, you are looking at 109 hours per acre. OUCH.
How much is your time worth? Time to start thinking about renting larger machine with more weight ( traction ), horsepower, capable of wider root rake, and greater capacity of pushing root rake thru soil to remove rocks. I am including 2 pics of machine and root rake I use to clean stumps and rocks ( anything larger than 8 inches) from soil and then move off to spoil pile. After "big" rocks removed then I go over it with power rake to remove everything else and leave soil level and ready for planting. A 8K lb or larger trackhoe is capable of running both the larger root rake grapple and the power rake. L pic gives you some idea of grapple tooth spacing and R pic is the power rake aka Harley Rake. You will find you can clear vines and low brush from land by dragging the top backwards by floating the top on ground or driving forwards and using lower teeth to to clean rocks buried up 6 to 8 inches below ground level in single pass. Depth will depend upon machine weight, horsepower, and root rake width.

I can clean, using root rake, about 1/8 acre of large rock ( over 8 inch size ) per hour and final clean and level the same area per hour using power rake. The M59 is a 11K+ machine with 60 hp.

Hope this helps with your project.

Imagine the price of the Harley Rake is scary.

 

[joea99]

You could hire a Skid Steer or Compact Track Loader equipped with a skeleton rock bucket. After the rocks are sieved out and hauled away you will need to replace spoil with good soil. Likely a fairly expensive evolution.

VIDEOS:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=skid+steer+skeleton+rock+bucket

Watching the video, that setup would be hitting and stalling against big fellers every few feet. Some of them are like icebergs only see the top 10%. Or worse don't see.

Hoping by the time I clear out enough trees and roots most of those will be located.

 

[M59]

Imagine the price of the Harley Rake is scary.

Harley rake delivered Aug 2020 was $8,000 and I am guessing it is a good bit more now with all the crazy in the world. Renting for a week or month could probably be done for a grand. Could also have a local landscaper come in and do the work but they are probably also all backed up with work and just taking only the most profitable jobs.

As an aside but related to current crazy pricing. I paid $38K delivered in 2014 for used 230 hour M59 with hydraulic thumb and full set of Kubota shop manuals. In may 2022, I priced a new M62 ( the M59 with 2 more feet of reach on backhoe) at $95K and delivery of 1 year.

Rent if you can or down size your project until a year or 2 goes by and the world gets some sanity back.

 

[M59]

Watching the video, that setup would be hitting and stalling against big fellers every few feet. Some of them are like icebergs only see the top 10%. Or worse don't see.

Hoping by the time I clear out enough trees and roots most of those will be located.

I never found rock buckets to be particularly effective unless the ground was bone dry AND already pulverized. If the ground has any moisture in it, the rock bucket tends to pick up a lot of earth with any stones. Even with a root rake grapple and its 8 inch tooth spacing I can pick up some big earth clods. Have to give the grapple a vigorous shake to get earth to fall away.

Either way you need a heavy machine and decent horsepower to push the tines ( rock bucket or root rack ) thru the soil

 

[Jstpssng]

but kind a saw them as "city folk" doing the "hip" thing.

So did I. Yet they still seem to get more from their gardens than I do. I don't have the big rocks you are trying to deal with, but my field laid fallow for 40 years and I had to have the trees cut and stumps removed. That was in 2009, and I am just starting to see earthworms in my soil. In hindsight I should have grown cover crops for a few years, to get some organic matter back into the soil.

 

[JLH4]

I have been small plot farming/gardening most of the last 70 years and used raised beds quite often. My wife and I now have 12 4x8 raised beds producing a lot of fruit and vegetables which we can, freeze, dry and give to the kids/grand kids. A 24x16 work shed sits on 28 tons of gravel. That is how we do it on this rocky and clay Kentucky hilltop. We did have to bring in a load of topsoil(?) and we compost everything we can to supplement to raised beds. The initial cost was a little high, but it has paid off over the last 15 years.

 

[Jstpssng]

You can even put junk wood (trees, not lumber) in the bottom of your raised beds before putting soil in, and just build the sides a little taller. It will rot down pretty quickly.

I have been small plot farming/gardening most of the last 70 years and used raised beds quite often.

Do you have wooden sides? If so, how often do you have to replace them?

 

[amhicks21]

I built a rock bucket out of a worn out skidsteer bucket and 1" rebar for practically nothing about 10 years ago and have probably used it on 100 boulder jobs since. Im not sure if it would work well to do something like that on something as small as a b21 though. you have to shake the bucket around quite a bit to get the dirt to fall through and i dont think your tractor would handle that like a skid does. It might work well to find or build a rock screener with just rebar set up at an angle though. You can start with a cheap old trailer and weld the rebar off the side so the rock goes in the trailer and the dirt falls back to the ground and then tow the trailer off to dump in a pile somewhere. If you want really perfect soil, you could rent a vibratory screener if you can find one locally but you'd want to pick out any rocks bigger than around 12" so not to cause damage. I started making topsoil to recycle the lawn and landscape waste we bring in at work a few years ago. Since I screen down to 1/2" I can make 10-12 yards per hour but if you're only screening to 1" you should be able to get through 20 yards or more per hour but im not really sure with a tractor that size. As others have said, getting the ground broke up and dried out to a point where you can actually mechanically sort anything is the real trick. This is my little setup.

 

[jyoutz]

That probably makes more sense. I see several neighbors doing the raised bed thing, but kind a saw them as "city folk" doing the "hip" thing. That and I'm known to be a stubborn, so and so.

I should content myself to ripping out as many trees and roots as seems sane, which will likely leave me enough loose craters to make the leveling out part easier.

You cannot make good soil from a rock pile. I agree with hauling in good topsoil and spreading it about 8-12” thick where you want to garden.

 

[jyoutz]

So did I. Yet they still seem to get more from their gardens than I do. I don't have the big rocks you are trying to deal with, but my field laid fallow for 40 years and I had to have the trees cut and stumps removed. That was in 2009, and I am just starting to see earthworms in my soil. In hindsight I should have grown cover crops for a few years, to get some organic matter back into the soil.

I have great soil (clay loam, no rocks). I started my garden field 16 years ago and have been adding organic materials annually. Initially, I plowed, then planted oats. Before the oats ripened, I tilled the green stalks under the soil. A cheap and quick way to add organic material.

 

[Jstpssng]

I have great soil (clay loam, no rocks). I started my garden field 16 years ago and have been adding organic materials annually. Initially, I plowed, then planted oats. Before the oats ripened, I tilled the green stalks under the soil. A cheap and quick way to add organic material.

After my field was cleared I broadcasted winter rye. The turkeys loved it! They started on one end of my field and over the course of a week or more, stripped it clean. Every night I would go up and see the line where they had stopped.
The following year I tried oats. That was a waste of time and money. So I bought buckwheat... that came up but was short and anemic.
For my vegetable garden I bought manure or compost every year, and would put some with every plant. I also planted lots of beans, mostly to turn them under. Last year I started digging into the stump piles, which contained the top layer of topsoil. After 12 years the stumps have mostly rotted down, so hopefully I'm adding organic matter back into the garden.

 

[joea99]

Raised beds might be best, but I have always been put off by wooden sides. Was wondering about putting some of these rocks and boulders to use in that way.

 

[jyoutz]

After my field was cleared I broadcasted winter rye. The turkeys loved it! They started on one end of my field and over the course of a week or more, stripped it clean. Every night I would go up and see the line where they had stopped.
The following year I tried oats. That was a waste of time and money. So I bought buckwheat... that came up but was short and anemic.
For my vegetable garden I bought manure or compost every year, and would put some with every plant. I also planted lots of beans, mostly to turn them under. Last year I started digging into the stump piles, which contained the top layer of topsoil. After 12 years the stumps have mostly rotted down, so hopefully I'm adding organic matter back into the garden.

I have heard that rye exudes a root chemical that discourages growth of other plant species. If oat’s didn’t work, barley is easy to seed, but whatever you use, till it under before the seeds ripen, or you will just be introducing more weed competition for your garden crops.

 

[Jstpssng]

I have heard that rye exudes a root chemical that discourages growth of other plant species. If oat’s didn’t work, barley is easy to seed, but whatever you use, till it under before the seeds ripen, or you will just be introducing more weed competition for your garden crops.

The rye didn't take... the turkeys cleaned it up like a starving man at a buffet. When they stumped the field a layer of topsoil came iwth it. Even before then though, the ground was so barren that I am just starting to see earthworms.