Common rail vs mechanical injection

[Jstpssng]

Wondering what the first use of a turbo was on a Compact Tractor? .... say, under 40 HP....?

The first one I can recall off the top of my head was the JD1050, and "tractor data" says that would be 1980.

Anyway, the JD1050 would have a 3 cylinder turboed Yanmar engine, and somehow that doesn't surprise me. An innovative company.
rScotty

My neighbor still has one of those which he bought new. It's had a head gasket replaced and a few other minor things but still going strong. Those old Yanmar powered JDs were tough tractors.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

Wondering what the first use of a turbo was on a Compact Tractor? .... say, under 40 HP....?

The first one I can recall off the top of my head was the JD1050, and "tractor data" says that would be 1980.

Anyway, the JD1050 would have a 3 cylinder turboed Yanmar engine, and somehow that doesn't surprise me. An innovative company.
rScotty

Just look up valmet. Oh wait nm, they dont exist either.

 

[RickB]

Just look up valmet. Oh wait nm, they dont exist either.

Why would you post that comment?

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

Why would you post that comment?

They pushed turbo and charger use in tractors as well as being involved in developing the compex charger. They currently produce both types of tractors.

It seems that is heresy here, so they cant exist.

 

[LouNY]

I don't know when the US manufactures first used turbo's on their diesels,
I do know that they were in the 60's and for that matter in the late 50's some were super charged.
Then on top of that it was a 2 stroke super charged diesel in the late 50's in an Oliver.
The Ford 9000, IH 1066,Case 970, Oliver 1950-T were all turbo charged.

 

[RickB]

I don't know when the US manufactures first used turbo's on their diesels,
I do know that they were in the 60's and for that matter in the late 50's some were super charged.
Then on top of that it was a 2 stroke super charged diesel in the late 50's in an Oliver.
The Ford 9000, IH 1066,Case 970, Oliver 1950-T were all turbo charged.

The 1961 Allis D19 diesel was the first domestic farm tractor with a turbocharger, possibly the first worldwide.
the 1965 IH 1206 I believe was the first turbocharged US built tractor with over 100 hp.
Wikipedia says Valmet had the worlds first turbocharged 4cylinder tractor in 1969. Wiki also claims they were the only articulated tractor between 100 and 200 hp which is simply absurd.
None of these tractors are likely to fit anyone's definition of a CUT of course.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

The 1961 Allis D19 diesel was the first domestic farm tractor with a turbocharger, possibly the first worldwide.
the 1965 IH 1206 I believe was the first turbocharged US built tractor with over 100 hp.
Wikipedia says Valmet had the worlds first turbocharged 4cylinder tractor in 1969. Wiki also claims they were the only articulated tractor between 100 and 200 hp which is simply absurd.
None of these tractors are likely to fit anyone's definition of a CUT of course.

Valmet had a 2.7L 3cyl turbo in the late 70s early 80s. Normally made something like 35hp, the turbo pushed it to 50. Hardly ever saw them, neighbor had one. Never heard of them before or saw one since and I am too cheap to buy one.

 

[RickB]

Valmet had a 2.7L 3cyl turbo in the late 70s early 80s. Normally made something like 35hp, the turbo pushed it to 50. Hardly ever saw them, neighbor had one. Never heard of them before or saw one since and I am too cheap to buy one.

https://www.agridane.com/agricultural-tractors/valtra/valmet-504-604-604-turbo-specs/

 

[kenmac]

If that wasn't the first it had to have been close. Yanmar had their own presence in North America about that time and had a CUT with a power shift transmission. 336 maybe? I wonder if that was turboed?

yanmar 336, and 3110 were non turbo
3810 and JD1050 were the same engine as 336 and 3110 but turbo

 

[Hay Dude]

Wikipedia?
Does anyone take them seriously?

 

[4570Man]

My wife just picked up a BMW X-5 with a turbo straight six
you can barely, just barely hear the turbo (as opposed to my 8.3 Cummins which has amazing turbo whistle).
Anyway, my wife doesn’t know a turbo from a transmission and she will pull in the garage and just shut it off. Not terrible, because we live on a long low speed lane before our driveway, but not the best when pulling in somewhere else ff highway then immediate shut down.
Noticed BMW has an pretty loud electric fan that runs after a hot shut down. Wondered if it was tied to an EGT probe for cooling the turbo?

Turbos can be air, oil and water cooled.

The turbo on my 5.9 Cummins in my 750 is water cooled. Is that common for them or more of a higher duty rating thing? I have no idea what the guts in the Cummins are like but just looking at the obvious it has a bigger oil pan, bigger oil filter, bigger radiator, bigger fan and a larger diameter turbo than a 5.9 pickup has.

 

[rjent]

Personally I prefer the jerk pump mechanical injection. I grew up in the days of a shutoff valve for killing the engine and really didn't like the solenoid idea (still don't in some applications). Efficiency is really not an issue and like it has been pointed out, the maint costs override the fuel savings (not to mention the burn out cycles). If you keep a jerk pump fuel system maintained and adjusted correctly, it will start as easy as any common rail. just different.
Suffice it to say, I don't like the electronics on tractors, I think it is a disaster waiting to happen.

JMHO

 

[Hall00]

The turbo on my 5.9 Cummins in my 750 is water cooled. Is that common for them or more of a higher duty rating thing? I have no idea what the guts in the Cummins are like but just looking at the obvious it has a bigger oil pan, bigger oil filter, bigger radiator, bigger fan and a larger diameter turbo than a 5.9 pickup has.

The base 5.9 is just that...5.9l of displacement. Same block, different auxillary parts depending on application.

 

[RickB]

Wikipedia?
Does anyone take them seriously?

I give Wiki about the same accuracy rating as the average TBN post.

 

[Hay Dude]

I give Wiki about the same accuracy rating as the average TBN post.

Pretty pathetic, huh?
Someone claiming to be an expert “encyclopedic“ source of information has similar accuracy to the average TBN post..

 

[Hay Dude]

The turbo on my 5.9 Cummins in my 750 is water cooled. Is that common for them or more of a higher duty rating thing? I have no idea what the guts in the Cummins are like but just looking at the obvious it has a bigger oil pan, bigger oil filter, bigger radiator, bigger fan and a larger diameter turbo than a 5.9 pickup has.

It is equipped with all the “extras” you mention to help it live a longer life in its medium duty status. A 5.9L is a very stout, albeit small displacement diesel. It’s being asked to do a lot more hard heavy work in a F750 application than a Ram pickup.
It will see higher heat over its service life and must be equipped for it. I have seen 5.9’s in tandems with over 1/4 million miles and still going strong.

 

[RickB]

Pretty pathetic, huh?
Someone claiming to be an expert “encyclopedic“ source of information has similar accuracy to the average TBN post..

I cited two pieces of info from Wiki. One I know to be false, the other I suspect might be factual.

 

[Username Taken]

The turbo on my 5.9 Cummins in my 750 is water cooled. Is that common for them or more of a higher duty rating thing? I have no idea what the guts in the Cummins are like but just looking at the obvious it has a bigger oil pan, bigger oil filter, bigger radiator, bigger fan and a larger diameter turbo than a 5.9 pickup has.

Unless your bearings are ceramic or some other space-age material, they're lubricated/cooled by oil. They might be ceramic, but I doubt it.

They have to be. Some of those turbo's are turning 250,000 RPM.

One of the ways Ford has developed, with its push for everything ecoboost, is some kind of cooling method that draws oil into the bearings of their turbo's after it's shut off. I tried to read it once but I lost interest because it was quite technical.

All this said, if I wanted a tractor under 100HP, I'd try to find one that was the least complicated. I could live with more fuel consumption in exchange for fewer problems

Common Rail and all that jazz makes more power but, hoo-boi, can they be expensive to fix; and they are very finicky unless they're run a lot.

A hot-shotter I know put 500k on his Cummins with no problems at all. Never a one. But people that drive them around town experience problems (almost totally with the emissions garbage) all the time. And it's not hard to drop $10k on emissions equipment on those things.

Mine had a sensor go south. Just a sensor on a DEF pump. $2,500 under warranty to replace the pump.

It has since gone through a weight reduction program.

 

[4570Man]

Unless your bearings are ceramic or some other space-age material, they're lubricated/cooled by oil. They might be ceramic, but I doubt it.

They have to be. Some of those turbo's are turning 250,000 RPM.

One of the ways Ford has developed, with its push for everything ecoboost, is some kind of cooling method that draws oil into the bearings of their turbo's after it's shut off. I tried to read it once but I lost interest because it was quite technical.

All this said, if I wanted a tractor under 100HP, I'd try to find one that was the least complicated. I could live with more fuel consumption in exchange for fewer problems

Common Rail and all that jazz makes more power but, hoo-boi, can they be expensive to fix; and they are very finicky unless they're run a lot.

A hot-shotter I know put 500k on his Cummins with no problems at all. Never a one. But people that drive them around town experience problems (almost totally with the emissions garbage) all the time. And it's not hard to drop $10k on emissions equipment on those things.

Mine had a sensor go south. Just a sensor on a DEF pump. $2,500 under warranty to replace the pump.

It has since gone through a weight reduction program.

The turbo is obviously oil lubricated but it’s also water cooled. There’s no need to put a 2005 truck on a weight loss program because it never had that garage. There’s probably the main reason why it still works lol.

 

[4570Man]

It is equipped with all the “extras” you mention to help it live a longer life in its medium duty status. A 5.9L is a very stout, albeit small displacement diesel. It’s being asked to do a lot more hard heavy work in a F750 application than a Ram pickup.
It will see higher heat over its service life and must be equipped for it. I have seen 5.9’s in tandems with over 1/4 million miles and still going strong.

A 5.9 is no doubt a little on the small side for medium duty trucks. But the medium duty trucks have a lot more cooling capability than a pickup which helps a lot.