compact TLB vs. full size TLB

[alchemysa]

If space and transport are not significant problems I think you'll be sorry pretty quickly if you get a small TLB. I've never owned a full size TLB. I've just got this B1550 Compact, and whilst its been invaluble (and wonderfully manouverable) its limitations are very obvious. My requirements were pretty similar to yours except I had a much smaller block - just an acre. I also had a transport problem. (It would have cost a small fortune to get a full size tractor to the site, but I was able to tow this down myself on a car trailer. And I'm going to be towing it to some other sites too). But the small tractors just don't have the weight (traction), lift power, lift height, and backhoe reach to do big jobs quickly. In some cases they don't have the balls to do the big jobs at all, and believe me, you WILL want to tackle bigger jobs than you think at the moment. Although I could sell it for what I paid for it, I'll probably keep this little beast for quite a while yet, but in hindsight a full size TLB would have been more useful... and possibly cheaper. My advice to you then it to get a full size TLB. You've got plenty of space. But in my opinion, one ABSOLUTE MUST on any TLB is a 4in1 loader bucket, especially for the site work you have planned where you'll want to do a lot of dozing, scraping and 'picking up'. You'll find more of those, cheaper, on full size TLB's too.

 

[AlanB]

Well JPCjr. Only you know your comfort level on equipment condition. And you know the price you are willing to pay.

I know I wanted to stay under 15K for mine, really wanted to stay under 10K.

Found a bunch out there. Where some junk? Sure, but there were several out there to look at and for my use, imo, there were plenty with plenty of life still in them.

Will mine break down and will I have to fix it? uhhhh yeah,, I won't be happy when it does, but it is part of the game. If I was builder and depended on mine for my living, would I do it differently? Absolutely, but the reality is, if mine does not work tomorrow, it is not that big a deal. I can pick at it, or I can get someone else out there to pick at it as it is convienient.

Also, don't think that by getting new, or nearly new, that, that will insure it is trouble free. Just look at the hassles Lone cowboy is going through on his New, NH tractor.

For me, I can afford cheap, and deal with the breakdowns when they come. If I had all my money tied up in an expensive piece of equipment, I could not "afford" to have to repair it when it breaks.

Good luck finding one.

You can search on New-Used-Tractors-Backhoes-Excavators-New Holland-Nashville Tractor & Equipment-TN and see where I bought mine, I only saw 2 come up on a search, but I bet there were 10 on the lot when I bought mine, and I looked at 4 in my price range.

Not sure if you have something similar more local too you, but I would imagine there is.

Hope you find something that works for you.

 

[JPCjr]

...
I am very glad that this thread was started, despite some differences in opinions this allows other out there who are lurking on this website to learn a lot about machinery and their little places they fill in the construction world. The disagreements also help solidify ones beliefs and possibly help give new insights as well.

I'm glad this thread was started also. I've read every post multiple times and appreciate all of the information. This is an extremely helpful site.

JPCjr: Have you had the chance to look at any machines yet? Anything jumping out at you?
Blake
WA

Oh yes, I've been looking. I've probably found every used TLB for sale online within a 200 mile radius. Nothing in person yet, except for the CAT 420D sitting out at a new development by our land. Got an up close look at it and it sure was nice.

The CAT dealer here is by far the largest. They've got ~ 70 used TLBs for sale or rent at any given time. We've also got a good CASE and JD dealership. The used JDs seem like they are quite a bit less than the CASE or CAT. Or maybe that's just the way it is with the few that I've found.

I've got a lot more reading to do before I make any decisions. I've been reading a lot over at heavy equipment forums. I probably won't make a purchase for a few months.

 

[Builder]

These numbers are a little skewed. A new cab and air unit XYZ brand will run about 30-35k.
A used ( IN MY AREA) Southern Ca. and according to a local dealer, who I just talked to - Case full size, 400-700 hours 70-75k. 5000 hrs, 40k -
A junker with parts needed ( air compressor ) 28k.

According to Machinery trader, they have some 1992 with 2,500 hrs. $38,500k.

For my money smaller new is always better than buying someone else's junk.

When you figure the time a used piece of equipment has to spend in the shop, a smaller tractor will out dig a bigger tractor anytime. Heck you could out dig a used piece of junk with a teaspoon.

Oh sure you "MAY" find that one Jewel out there, " my brothers Uncle twin's cousin just bought a ..." but the reality is people that buy these full size tractors USE THEM, and abuse them, then trade them off to suckers that want to save a buck.


1997
Manufacturer CASE
Model 590SL
Price $41,500
Location Rapid City, South Dakota
Serial Number JJG0208660
Condition USED
Drive 4WD
Horse Power 100
Hours 6,086

And by the time you put on tires and go through it, your up to 50k plus.

For $41,500, and 6k hours, definitely NOT a bargain, and there a lot more of these then there are “ Sweet buy’s “

1997 CASE 590SL For Sale at MachineryTrader.com

Excuse me, but.......are you serious? No really, what's your level of experience buying full size TLB's other than "calling a local dealer?"

ANY idiot can ask ANY price he wants. That doesn't mean all used full size TLBs are a rip-off.


Also, not all used equipment is "junk". My Dumptruck and backhoe were both bought used, my dumptruck is 17 years old and let me tell you, it's been excellent. My Case had 1100 hours on it and it runs/feels like a brand new machine. The Case dealer you talked to is an idiot. I paid $49K for a LOADED '05 Case 4x4 ex-hoe with cab and only 1090 hous on it. So I don't know how you're gonna pay $79,000 for a used Case with 500 hours on it.
Crap, mine was $79,000 NEW in '05 , They're about $81,000 now, so how can some nit-wit expect to get $79,000 for a Case when it's used for 500 hours?

Please tell me what "new cab and air XYZ unit will cost 30-$35K"?

The cheapest new, full size backhoe is a TEREX. A new cab 4x4 ex-hoe TEREX costs $61,000. Ask me how I know. Even an Open ROPS 4x2 std hoe with NO features will cost over $50K.

But please, tell me where to get a new XYZ unit with cab/air for $35K.

 

[machmeter62]

JPCjr: I was the same age you are now when we developed our acreage 30 yrs ago. This is information that may answer some questions related to your decisions on the route to go, and other things to consider?

Small backhoes in the mid seventies were very limited. It was by special order only, and "ARMSTRONG POWER STEERING" was standard then. Power steering was a $500 option, plus requiring a special order for my Kubota and I didn't want to add that to the bottom line; which was about 10% of the tractor price then.

I also decided to look at a severely used Case 580 that an underground construction company was unloading for $10,000. There was limited life left in it; if I purchased it my marriage would have been destroyed with "I told you so!" It had been over-heated more than once, leaky hydraulic cylinders, worn tires, and dry zerk fittings; it also showed signs of being used as a "bulldozer!?" The house probably wouldn't have happened? Anyhow, I went with a new Kubota and added a loader/9' BH. Rocks were not a problem; but trees were added beauty, that we didn't want to remove. The big Case would require many trees removed, because of some restricted tight areas!

I don't know how long you have owned your property, but I would spend many hours on the site location only, direction of the house in relation to sun exposure for future solar systems for hot water/electricity, septic field, etc. Our house,(English Tutor), swimming pool, and domestic hot water is provided by the sun nearly year around in Northern Calif.; and it's a big home 8000+ sq. ft. We wanted all that for our future home, and changed the location several times to get it right. Solar panels mounted on the front side of a home make it look like a commerical building? Maybe another site there maybe rock free, but give you less of a view? Maybe even spend money on a geologist to give you piece of mind on soil conditions before you start digging? I don't recommend three years deciding like we did; but it sounds like a beautiful site, and will be a big investment in time and money.

One early mistake was not buying a one ton dump truck (dually),early in the project to purchase the materials for building the 800' driveway, court yard, and septic field (500' leach lines). Wasting time for delayed deliveries; plus the transportation costs was a (PITA). I would rate the truck second to the tractor; it will save $$$! It will be both rewarding and challenging experience to build your future dream!

 

[coopers]

I've got a lot more reading to do before I make any decisions. I've been reading a lot over at heavy equipment forums. I probably won't make a purchase for a few months.

Just remember what Builder said and be cautious on the information you receive from that site. It's generally a good site with more contractors but like Builder said, some wannabees out there that "think" they know stuff.

When you figure the time a used piece of equipment has to spend in the shop, a smaller tractor will out dig a bigger tractor anytime. Heck you could out dig a used piece of junk with a teaspoon.

UH, NO.

Oh sure you "MAY" find that one Jewel out there, " my brothers Uncle twin's cousin just bought a ..." but the reality is people that buy these full size tractors USE THEM, and abuse them, then trade them off to suckers that want to save a buck.

Just because something is "used" does not always mean it is a piece of junk. Yes there are people who paint over their piles of s*** and others that do run their machines into the ground. But there are a lot of people like me that actually care for the machines we use and don't sell junk.

Also, your comparison of prices using the 590SL is odd. That price in my opinion sounds right. That's a 590SL, super L, 590...100 HP machine, that's the same as a JD 410SG, you're not going to find a 590 or 410 super model going cheap unless it's run down and the seller is being honest.


JPCjr: What other questions do you have or what other things do you have running through your head? I feel we're beating a dead horse right now and just trying to fix misconceptions at this point (from other posters); so any other things you're curious about or whatever let us know.

Blake
WA

 

[coopers]

One early mistake was not buying a one ton dump truck (dually),early in the project to purchase the materials for building the 800' driveway, court yard, and septic field (500' leach lines). Wasting time for delayed deliveries; plus the transportation costs was a (PITA). I would rate the truck second to the tractor; it will save $$$! It will be both rewarding and challenging experience to build your future dream!

Very good point. This would be another added bonus to completing tasks on your property. But again, not all used machines are crap. There are obviously some company's out there that are notorious for machine abuse because they have the money to buy new ones. I can think of a handful in my area. But again you can find a full size TLB in good shape.

Blake
WA

 

[jmfox]

JPCjr, maybe one of the dealers you mentioned would allow you to demo a machine that you are looking at. BTW, house placement/exposure is very important, and even though you have a large lot don't forget about the zoning requirements such as set back (front, side and rear) etc. Also remember that your mate will probably want a good view from the kitchen.

jmf

 

[Builder]

Coopers is right, but this has turned into a urinating match.

I'm gonna let the little TLB guys win this one. I'm tired of trying to help people. I feel like when I or another member can give real world experience, it's like a free gift of sound advice.

Obviously, pride of ownership has over-run common sense and there a lot more itty-bitty TLB owners here than full size TLB owners here, so it's their turf.

Good luck with your project. I hope I was able to interject some sense of what is the correct machine for the size job you're doing. If you want to use a small TLB backhoe to develop a house, barn, septic system, rainwater retention system, knock over big trees and stone-in a 1/5 mile of new driveway, please, have at it and leave yourself about 5 years to get it done.

Peace-out.

 

[AlanB]

JPCjr:
One early mistake was not buying a one ton dump truck (dually),early in the project to purchase the materials for building the 800' driveway, court yard, and septic field (500' leach lines). Wasting time for delayed deliveries; plus the transportation costs was a (PITA). I would rate the truck second to the tractor; it will save $$$! It will be both rewarding and challenging experience to build your future dream!

In the FWIW column, I am at this position now. And let me tell you, as the boss writes the $120 each delivery checks for materials (rock mostly) I can tell you I am a wishing I had one.

I am in a bit of a unique bind in that if we get a dump truck, we have to commercially insure it. I tried the Tack of getting one insured as a "farm truck" but both our insurers nixed the idea as we had a landscaping business and it was just too obvious.

It always sounds real good when I initially talk with them about the insurance, but when it comes to brass tacks I end back up at a couple hundred a month.

As to dollar values, sometimes you can get a pretty jamming deal on an older single axle dump then you can on the one tons.

But if I had to have one vehicle and was building a house with it, a one ton dually dump flat bed would be hard to beat for all the trips to the store you will be making