Compact Tractor Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) Version 2.0

[ptsg]

From 2020 and on, all new tractors sold, have to have emissions control systems on it. There are still some exceptions for the old stock but after that, there is no other way around.

It should also be a matter of time till they come up with yearly inspections on tractor like they do on on-road vehicles.

 

[finn1]

The DPF and SCR systems are the least intrusive to engine thermodynamic operation, so they will eventually be adopted by the holdouts still using a DOC.

The DPF is a catch and hold device, relying on some passive regeneration, and occasional active regeneration. The DOC basically relies on a 電etuned engine whether hot exhaust gasses.

SCR lets you run comparatively advanced timing and reduced EGR rates.

 

[jaydee325]

The EPA published a proposed rule for comment in January of 2020 (attached). These proposed rules will dictate the next phase for diesel emissions technology.

Interestingly, one of the issues the rule discusses potential remedies too is heat retention in the DPF/DOC after treatment systems to improve effectiveness of the process as well as preventing issues with plugging of the filters. Many of us have commented that the issues being seen with plugging that require dealer intervention are directly attributed to operation at low RPM/Load such that the soot does not get effectively removed during operation.

Unfortunately, I only recently ran across this proposed rule making after the comment period had expired.
View attachment 2020-00542.pdf

 

[Milo]

Thanks for posting that Jay. Shoot it would have been nice if tractor users on all the tractor forums would have commented.

 

[jeff9366]

I assume emission requirements will further tighten, does anyone know when tier V is coming and what it will entail?

Kubota's Annual Report to shareholders for 2019, recently published on the web, states that all Kubota engines sold in Europe are fully Tier V compliant.

Many of us have commented that the issues being seen with plugging that require dealer intervention are directly attributed to operation at low RPM/Load such that the soot does not get effectively removed during operation.

I am sure this is one reason. Stationary regeneration is the alternative to active regeneration while working.

Neal at Messicks shares the experience of my local Kubota dealer: Most problems arise when owner/operators do not read or do not heed the information on regeneration in the tractor Operator's Manual. Messicks and my dealer attribute 90% of regeneration problems directly to operator error.

How many employee operators are instructed in regeneration?

Many who own Tier IV compliant tractors in residential use only record 60 - 80 engine hours per year, hence barely regenerate once per year. Owners forget/ignore the infrequent procedure.

 

[Milo]

Kubota's Annual Report to shareholders for 2019, recently published on the web, states that all Kubota engines sold in Europe are fully Tier V compliant.

Maybe this is what ptsg is referring to?

From 2020 and on, all new tractors sold, have to have emissions control systems on it.

Neal at Messicks shares the experience of my local Kubota dealer: Most problems arise when owner/operators do not read or do not heed the information on regeneration in the tractor Operator's Manual. Messicks and my dealer attribute 90% of regeneration problems directly to operator error.....

I'm sure this is true Jeff but it appears not to matter how you're using your machine, not running your machine practically at full pto rpm all the time is now defined as "operator error". While doing so extends the time between regens it also consumes more fuel and makes more noise. It probably makes sense now to buy the least HP that'll do the work and run it WFO all the time.

 

[ptsg]

I've never investigate this subject too much, but after a quick search, yes, Tier V is a thing since 2019 in Europe. I had no idea though.

Here a bit more info on that: Emission Standards: Europe: Nonroad Engines

Emissions are getting really tight here on off-road engines. On on-road vehicles it was already very tight.

 

[fried1765]

From 2020 and on, all new tractors sold, have to have emissions control systems on it. There are still some exceptions for the old stock but after that, there is no other way around.

It should also be a matter of time till they come up with yearly inspections on tractor like they do on on-road vehicles.

Currently 33 of 50 states require some sort of emissions inspections for on-road vehicles.

It would be interesting to see how homeowner tractor inspections would be monitored, if the tractor is never driven on roadways, and never goes to a dealer.
My tractors are not taxed yearly, and few know that I even have them.

 

[ptsg]

Currently 33 of 50 states require some sort of emissions inspections for on-road vehicles.

It would be interesting to see how homeowner tractor inspections would be monitored, if the tractor is never driven on roadways, and never goes to a dealer.
My tractors are not taxed yearly, and few know that I even have them.

Our inspections on on-road vehicles are a bit more deep than that.

Here is a list of what they check:

- All the lights and horn and check the height of the front lights
- Check the VIN number to see if it matches the vehicle title
- Check if tires are still good, re all the same size and if the size matches the one homologated in the title
- Measure the exhaust gases emissions to see if there is anything dodgy going on
- Test front and rear brakes and also the parking brakes as well as the alignment of the car
- Test the shocks
- Visual inspection under the vehicle to check suspension, bushings, brake lines, any redneck repairs or modifications of the exhaust. Also they put the car over some plates that can move hydraulically, so they can push/pull the wheels back/forth and side to side to check all the suspension parts
- Check all the seat belts and if the triangle safety sign and safety vest are indeed in the car

I think that's all.

For the tractors, if they really go forward with that, it won't to be too hard either. Tractors are required to have license plate, therefore they have a title as well and have to have insurance to drive on the road. No yearly taxes on tractors yet.

But it still interesting to see what they will check up. I'm sure they will check all the safety features of the tractor, like seat belts and ROPS, since we have lots of deaths from roll overs but this is more related to my country in particular.

 

[Storm56]

If this emmission stuff keeps going like this for diesel engines, I see a return to gas engines in tractors. Already seeing that in Pickup and even Medium duty trucks.

Makes me so glad all my diesel powered equipment is Tier 2 and before. Should last me the rest of my days. I would HATE running my tractors etc at pto rated rpm all the time.

 

[Milo]

I've never investigate this subject too much, but after a quick search, yes, Tier V is a thing since 2019 in Europe. I had no idea though.

Here a bit more info on that: Emission Standards: Europe: Nonroad Engines....

So "Stage V" was implemented in EU for 2019 and all tractors sold in 2020 on. It now encompasses engines below 10kw. But while EU "stage 1-3" were the same as US "Tier 1-3," they separate after that. For now.

....Regulatory authorities in the EU, USA, and Japan have been under pressure from engine and equipment manufacturers to harmonize worldwide emission standards, in order to streamline engine development and emission type approval/certification for different markets. Stage I/II limits were in part harmonized with US regulations. Stage III/IV requirements were harmonized to a large degree with the US Tier 3/4 standards. However, at Stage V the harmonization has been largely lost—the Stage V PN limits require diesel particulate filters (DPF) on all affected engines, while the US Tier 4 standards can be met without filters......

 

[fried1765]

If this emmission stuff keeps going like this for diesel engines, I see a return to gas engines in tractors. Already seeing that in Pickup and even Medium duty trucks.

Makes me so glad all my diesel powered equipment is Tier 2 and before. Should last me the rest of my days. I would HATE running my tractors etc at pto rated rpm all the time.

^^^^AGREED !!!

 

[nova3930]

The DPF and SCR systems are the least intrusive to engine thermodynamic operation, so they will eventually be adopted by the holdouts still using a DOC.

The DOC basically relies on a 電etuned engine whether hot exhaust gasses.

It all depends on exactly what type of DOC, there are diffrent flavors. CO, non-soot unburned fuel, sulfur dioxide and other various organic compounds are still regulated emissions as far as I know, which are all what the DOC cleans up. The on road DOCs are now even tuned to convert NO into NO2, in order to support the SCR system operation.

As far as temp, DOC reaches 80% conversion efficiency around 700*F, while typical diesel EGTs are quite a bit above that. Tuned, my truck idles at 800*F+, so temp isn't really an issue.

 

[jeff9366]

I am looking for used compact tractor, it has to be a tier 3 or less, I live far from any dealer and hear friends cry about regen, regen, and floating back to the dealer for repairs, WHEN DID TIER 4 start with compacts? I need advice, and not picky, i'll take a JD or Kubota.

Tier IV emission standards require tractor manufacturers to add or revise pollution reduction technology on new tractors generating over 19 kW power = 25.4794 horsepower. Tier IV began phasing in during 2009, retail conversion was almost complete in 2013 when I bought my 'Tier IV' Kubota L3560. Old news in 2020.

Compact tractors used in residential applications such as lawn mowing, gardening and landscaping average sixty (60) engine hours of use per year.

That is ONE regeneration per YEAR.

The earth is not flat. The sky has not fallen. New tractor sales continue apace.


New tractors with less than 25.4794 horsepower are exempt from Tier IV requirements in the USA, but not in Europe where Tier V has been implemented.

A few light tractors, with small displacement engines yet 25-26 horsepower have been factory tuned to meet Tier IV requirements without a DPF. Low displacement tractor engines have to rev a little high to provide rated horsepower and meet Tier IV standards without a DPF.

GOOD VIDEO: Comparing Kubota's 26hp Compact Tractors - YouTube

 

[TCowner]

I for one appreciate the cleaner running diesel engines today. My Deere 4066R runs so much cleaner than the Deere 3720 it replaced. On cold start the exhaust emissions on the 3720 essentially required me to move the tractor quickly out of the shed. Not so on the 4066R. I've had no problems with the regeneration procedure on mine.

I also have a second generation Deere 2025R which is not a Tier IV compliant engine and it too runs much dirtier.

To each his own I guess but I don't think breathing unburned diesel fuel is a good thing.

 

[Rmart30]

I for one appreciate the cleaner running diesel engines today. My Deere 4066R runs so much cleaner than the Deere 3720 it replaced. On cold start the exhaust emissions on the 3720 essentially required me to move the tractor quickly out of the shed. Not so on the 4066R. I've had no problems with the regeneration procedure on mine.

I also have a second generation Deere 2025R which is not a Tier IV compliant engine and it too runs much dirtier.

To each his own I guess but I don't think breathing unburned diesel fuel is a good thing.

I dont think any of us here doesnt want to breathe clean air but. This was shoved down our throats when it needed 10 more years of R&D and testing done before it was implemented. Its cost millions of dollars to end users thru no fault of their own.

 

[Storm56]

I have a couple questions for all who think the tier 4 stuff is great. FIRST IF you had the opportunity to buy a tier 2 tractor, which still burns pretty clean with little smoke, or a tier 4 tractor with all the added complexity for the same price, which would you buy?

Secondly, NOW say the tier 2 tractor was $4,000 less because it does not have all the added complexity, which would you buy?

Me I would pay MORE for the tier 2 because I know it will not be headaches down the road. Plus I would HATE running my tractor at top rpm all the time.

I just know way too many people who own tier 4 crap that has hit them in the wallet hard! And quite a few mechanics who are not tier 4 emmission fans.

Our govt/epa completely screwed up what was once a great engine.

Don't currently own any tier 4 crap and likely never will.

 

[jeff9366]

The motto of the "Green" Party is: Think globally, act locally. I gather you are not "green".


I don't currently own any Tier 2 crap and likely never will.

 

[Storm56]

The motto of the "Green" Party is: Think globally, act locally. I gather you are not "green".

No, not a fan or member of the "Green Party". Not a fan of hypocrisy either, and there is way too much of that in the "leaders" of the green party.

I am a conservative and do believe in taking "reasonable" measures in preserving the environment and trying to leave it a better place than we found it.

I am sure we will undoubtedly disagree in how to achieve those objectives.

So I will leave it at, we will have agree to disagree.

 

[fried1765]

No, not a fan or member of the "Green Party". Not a fan of hypocrisy either, and there is way too much of that in the "leaders" of the green party.

I am a conservative and do believe in taking "reasonable" measures in preserving the environment and trying to leave it a better place than we found it.

I am sure we will undoubtedly disagree in how to achieve those objectives.

So I will leave it at, we will have agree to disagree.

OH NO!!!
This is terrible political chit.
Others here, will now be wetting their pants, and contacting the infamous "Catherine" for relief.