Confused about Supersteer

Maurice · Apr 16, 2003

All,

I have really confused myself. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I have been trying to make sense of the NH doc on the SS. I have been looking at the TC40D and was debating on the SS. The specs state a turning radius of 110" w/o SS and 106" with SS. That sounds to me like I can only turn a 4 inch smaller circle radius.

Then immediately following states a turn around diameter of 127" w/o and 83 with SS. Now it has cut 44 inches out /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Can some one put it in laymans terms that my simple mind can understand. I know what the radius and diameter are, but I guess what I am after is .... how tight of a circle can I make. For example, circling around a tree.

If I measured the diameter of the inside circle made by the inside tires, what size will it be?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Mark_in_NH · Apr 16, 2003

Maurice,
This is a question that is definatly going to have to be answered by the TBNr's with super steer.
I am not doing any mowing, in fact, I don't even own a mower of any type for my tractor. But I do know that my TC35D turns one heck of a tight circle even without SS.

thcri · Apr 16, 2003

Maurice,

I have a TC29D with super-steer. I have never looked in the data to actually see what it says about turning radius, but I can tell yor the back inside tire pretty much stops when you turn the steering wheel tight. You won't find a tractor that can turn as sharp as it.

I like my super-steer for mowing and plowing snow with my FEL I can get in tight corners with it. As far as normal FEL work, brush hoggin, tilling you don't need it. In fact with heavy loads on the loader and having the front axle in the tight position I would tend to think you could tip the tractor easier. If I had to buy again, I would take the super-steer.

But you have to decide what you are going to use the tractor most for and if the $1,000 to $1,500 is worth it.

Murph

JohnMiller3 · Apr 17, 2003

…the back inside tire pretty much stops when you turn the steering wheel tight…

If the one back tire basically stops in SS mode… wouldn’t this greatly hinder snow plowing operation with lack of traction…?

TCowner · Apr 17, 2003

Maurice, I've posted several times about the supersteer. I have it on my TC40D. My experience may be different from other members but let me offer my opinon here. Without the loader attached (17LA) I love the way the tractor steers and turns. Supersteer also gives you the feature of disconnecting the front wheel drive when you make a sharp turn. You can lock the front wheel assist full time if you want but the disconnect feature allows the tightest turn in the industry with a pretty gentle touch on your turf. I work around hundreds of trees on my property and the ability to move in an around in tight circles is nice. However, with the front end loader attached my love for Supersteer drops just a bit. The loaders for the Class III supersteer tractors (TC35D,TC40 and TC45D) require the longer loader. I beleive it is around 10 inches longer than the one for tractors without supersteer. The loader sticks out in front of the tractor quite a distance. The supersteer design has the quirk of the front of the tractor (or loader) actually moving in the opposite direction of the direction you turn the steering wheel at first. This can create a problem if you are tight quarters with the loader. I was moving some crushed rock for a neighbor around his deck and had about 8 inches of clearance between the posts and the side of the loader bucket. Normally this would not be problem. You simply approach in a straight line, making a few steering adjustments as needed, and dump the rock. WIth supersteer as I approached the opening between the posts I tried to make a slight adjustment by turing the steering wheel to the left and the front of the loader actually moves to the right in the opposite direction I wanted. I was able to stop before I hit the posts. Getting out of the jam requires to completely rethink the way you steer. After some practice you learn to adapt but the problem does not completely go away. Every couple of months or so I find myself in tight quarters cursing the supersteer. But after I get out I seem to get over it. The bottom line is that pros of the supersteer outweigh the cons in my opinion. But I think anyone contemplating the supersteer option needs to try it out on your property for an hour with a loader. In the end I think most will like the feature and decide its work the $1000 or so. But if you do a lot of loader work where you work in tight quarters where precision work is required you may rethink the idea. New Holland's regular axle gives a very nice turning radius.

grainger12002 · Apr 17, 2003

I have to agree with MarkNH,the TC does turn real tight w\o the ss option, I did try it at the dealer but was not what I wnated. The TC turns tighter than any tractor we have had and is very nice to work with in close quarters. Good luck,hope this helps-Lloyd /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Anonymous Poster · Apr 17, 2003

I think not sure why nothing scientific about my thougths.. just thoughts I guess that using the FEL with my SS actually allows me to turnin to position more so that the posibility of getting off tilt is lessen.

kensfarm · Apr 17, 2003

Maurice.. I have the TC35D w/ SS.. and I'd have to agree w/ Terry.. w/ the FEL.. it takes some getting use to the fact the bucket moves to the right.. when your turn the steering to the left. Besides the tight turning capabilities.. I've found uses for this "pivot" effect.. w/out moving the tractor.. I can turn the steering wheel to move the bucket 6 inches to the left or to the right.. and it does the same for a post hole digger.. it's not the purpose of the SS.. but it saves me some time from not having to backup/pullforward to re-align implements. The SS has gotten me in/out of some tight spots.. in the barn.. in the woods.. I'm glad I have it.

Maurice · Apr 17, 2003

Many thanks to all who responded.

Here's a little more background. I have a Case/IH dealer about 10 miles away and a NH dealer about 50 miles away. I have test drove both, however that was last year. I test drove the 35 version of both. But no SS /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The NH guy had just sold his last one.

I'm getting rid of an IH 856 with a loader, which is way under utilized. I'm trying to keep the power and lift capacity up while using the tractor for more things around the place.

I do have a few more questions now.

What makes the loader initially move in a different direction. Does the front axle start to do its thing even with small changes in the steering?

Do any of the 35-45 range folks finish mow with their tractor and if so MMM or RFM? Never used an RFM so naturally leaning toward the MMM.

Do dealers let you test out new equipment, tractor and mowers included? I've only bought used in the past. They have had no problem testing used.

djradz · Apr 17, 2003

Maurice, I finish mow with my 40D with a Woods 6 ft. RFM and no SS. I've always been very pleased with this setup but think with a MMM I might be able to do an even finer job and get a little closer to trees. However, with this big of a rig, I'm not sure I want to get that much closer. If given a choice, I've been so happy with the RFM that I don't know if I'd venture into the untried (for me) area of a MMM.

Maurice · Apr 17, 2003

djradz,

A concern I have with the RFM is the ability of the mover to pick-up the grass that the front and read wheels have squished. Thus leaving rows of grass taller where the wheels have run, after it stands back up.

Do you have any such problem?

Maybe the type of mower, rear discharge or windtunnel, I think its called, would make a difference with my question. Which do you have?

Oh-Oh, starting to answer my own questions with other questions. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

hazmat · Apr 17, 2003

Get a mower with "high lift" blades (more "sail" area). They will suck the grass up no problem. I had a landpride RFM before my MMM. Cut quality was the same. Both being excellant. Both are rear discharge.

thcri · Apr 18, 2003

( …the back inside tire pretty much stops when you turn the steering wheel tight…

If the one back tire basically stops in SS mode… wouldn’t this greatly hinder snow plowing operation with lack of traction…?
)

Not really John. Sensi-trac just pulls in the 4 wheel drive automatically and away you go. But who is going to even try plowing something while trying to turn that tight? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

But the whole statement I was trying to make was just how tight you can turn with it. It comes in very handy for mowing with a MMM. You can go right around the trees and other objects with no problems. No manufacturer has a tractor that can turn as sharp as Super-Steer. And again, even with loader work if I had to do it all over again Super-Steer would be a must not an option.

murph

Maurice · Apr 18, 2003

Thanks for the info!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Are "high lift" blades standard on most finish mowers or is that something I need to ask the sales guy about on a particular brand?

Was there a particular reason you switched from the RFM to the MMM

I'm leaning toward the MMM right now. Need to find a dealer with one on so I can determine how difficult it will be for me to take off and put back on. That might sway me toward the RFM. And all this based on never using a RFM. Sounds like I need to try an RFM out also. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

djradz · Apr 18, 2003

I've not noticed any appreciable pressing down of the grass to the extent that the RFM doesn't cut the grass as short. My Craftsman lawn tractor with a MMM probably does it just as much from just the weight of the front wheels.

I tried high lift blades for a few years and didn't notice any difference. With my 6 ft mower the blade tip speed must be pretty fast and I already get plenty of lift with the regular blades. Plus, the high lift blades were a few bucks more and not stocked. I also switched to some other blade manufacturer along the way but have always come back to Woods since their steel seems to be superior. Occasionally, I use my RFM to cut some fields and trails on our property so there's an occasional stump or rock /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif that gets hit.

My RFM is an old Woods RM 306, picture attached. I would say it has no special provisions for a "wind-tunnel" and is not a rear discharge design, however, with both side plates as pictured, the rear's where the grass comes out. RM 306

grainger12002 · Apr 18, 2003

That is agreat looking unit,can you give me an idea what they cost. I want to get a finish mower lie the one you have pictured.Are you happy with the performance of it? sure looks great !! Lloyd

DVerbarg · Apr 19, 2003

Maurice,

Just went out and did a turn (with SS on a TC40D) and the diameter of the inside circle is around 18". I would interested in knowing what the diameter is on a non-SS unit.

djradz · Apr 21, 2003

Boy Loyd, what a loaded question. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I haven't priced mowers for quite some time and I'm sure others could give you better information than I, but I'll take a few guesses. For a similar Woods unit, you're probably in the $1,400 - $2,000 range, but you're getting a pretty heavy duty machine. On the low end, I think for a King Kutter or similar unit made by Howse you're probably in the $800 to $1,200 range. I've been extremely happy with my Woods 6 ft unit. I've abused the heck out of it, (as far as heavy duty mowing on trails, brush, small trees, and even on those rare occasions, a rock or stump) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif and still it keeps on ticking. It was built sometime around the early to mid-1970's and still is on the original drive belt. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I did rebuild the bearing housings once but other than that the only thing is some fresh paint and some new rear wheels. With it's ability to float, it does a beautiful job. One real nice thing about Woods is that even now, 25 years later, parts are still available anywhere Woods equipment is sold. Their new units, especially the RD series looks real nice to me.

Maurice · Apr 21, 2003

Dave,

WOW! 18", that's a darn tight circle! Thanks for taking the time to do the measuring.

I too would also like the diameter of a non-SS.

Do you need to use the brakes to get the tight, or just go slowly?

BTW, just found out the a local mall actually has NH tractors inside the mall, kinda like the car dealers do. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now I finally have something to do/look at while the wife shops /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hoeman00 · Apr 23, 2003

I had a 6' Woods RFM on a L2900 Kubota and traded in on the 35D w/ SS and 84" MMM.
This is one fine mowing unit.
I'll have to measure again but I recall less than 30" of uncut grass in a full turn.
I mow 1 pass around yard then do 180 degree turns on every pass (looks neat the stripe effect).
The cut is FAR superior to the Woods and it seems like the 84" takes less power to run than the Woods.
Try to turn the pto of different mowers by hand but the 6' Woods had to be turned w/ a bar.
As for taking on and off, I usually do it once a week.
One thing I found to speed do it is;
1. Unhook the pto drive
2. Unhook front pins
3. Pull front end up on 1' long RR ties
4. Unhook rear pins
5. Pull mower out to side.
To install do reverse, this is on concrete pad in front of garage.
The 6"+ height of RR ties lets mower roll straight out w/o weaving around gearbox.
I haven't timed it yet but a couple minutes removing and less than 5 minutes installing and greasing it.