Confused about Supersteer

[Maurice]

Thanks for the info.

I am leaning toward the MMM, mostly because I'm not sure how the wife or son would handle it otherwise.

Now, I feel a lot better about using the MMM on that frame size. Wasn't sure if I was just being crazy for thinking about it. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Casimir]

I just saw one potential problem with supersteer - which may or may not concern you. The fellow who has done most of our clearing and seeding for pasture has a TC45D, which he brought over to do the seeding (broadcast spreader, pulling a cultipacker). He pointed out to me that when he bought the tractor, the dealer sold him 150 lbs (3) of weights for the front of the tractor (he does not have a FEL on the tractor). The problem is, only two weights will fit on the front, and during a sharp turn, with Ag tires, the tires actually hit the weights hanging on the front of the tractor.

I had gone out to take some digital pictures while he was seeding, and stood there while he showed me the problem, and totally forgot I had a camera in my hand /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

 

[Maurice]

Interesting and thanks for the heads up. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Do you think it's a "critical" problem, e.g. It might cut or puncture the tire in some way or maybe even the tire could tear the weight off the front?

I didn't think too much of it until I thought about backing up in a tight turn, then the tire would be lifting the weight. Could be bad news. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Any one out there with front weights and SS, that can shed a little light on the subject?

 

[spencer200]

The front tires on a ss will not hit the weights because the axle sit farther out in front of the tractor.

 

[Casimir]

Maurice:

I don't know that I would call it a "critcal" problem. To him, it seemed more of an irritation. However, he did have AG tires on the front, and the bars definitely scuffed the weights when he turned sharply. I don't know if the bar of the tire would hook under the weight when moving in reverse. The weights were bolted to the front bracket, so it would more likely damage the tread on the tire than bend anything on the tractor or lift the weight off.

Spencer200:
(Smile when you call me a liar /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
I wish I had thought to use the camera I had in my hand, but there was no question that the front tire was in contact with the front weight on this TC45D. I was within 2 feet of it when he demonstrated the problem, and I could not see any daylight between the rubber and the weight. There were obvious scuff marks on both the weights and the tires, so it had happened more than once. This may or may not be a problem with other models, different tires or different types of weights. These were 50 lb. suitcase weights - two bolted to the front bracket side by side. There was not room for a third weight.

 

[spencer200]

was that a super steer or standard steer. I know on the standard steer they do, but have not seen this happen on a supersteer model! I did not intend to call you a liar sorry if you took it that way /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[thcri]

I have Super-Steer on my TC29D. I don't know about the larger series but just looking at how my front axle shifts way out to the front I would think it would be impossible for the tire to hit the weights. I could see it on the standard steering. But then I don't have the weights to try it.

murph

 

[DVerbarg]

<font color="blue"> Do you need to use the brakes to get the tight, or just go slowly?
</font>

Just go slowly to get the 18" measurement, if you use the brakes the measured diameter would be negative since the inside wheel can pivot on the middle of the tread and the measurement is taken from the outermost part of the tread.

It seems rather funny to me that my TC40D/ss does a 18" diameter radius and many of the the "small" riding lawn mower manufacturers state that they have the same 18" diameter radius on their equipment despite the fact that it is much smaller it does not turn any sharper. However the outside measurement of that radius would be much smaller than that of the TC40D/ss.

 

[Casimir]

No problem. I was joking. Didn't you see me smiling? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well, when he turned the steering wheel, the whole front axle rotated, so that the "outside" front wheel was nearly in front of the tractor. On the standard steer, doesn't the front axle stay perpendicular to the main axis of the tractor, like it does on my Ford/NH 1520? I looked at enough NH's while I was shopping that I think I know the difference between SS and standard steer. (I continue to drool over them every time I stop by my dealer's place /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

As I said, it may just have been the particular combination: TC45D w/ R1 tires and suitcase weights hanging off the front bracket, but the tires do hit the weights when he makes a sharp turn. Without the weights on front, the tire clears the front bracket by 3-5 inches. The weights stick out 6-8 inches in front of the bracket.

With standard steering, I don't think the front tires are large enough diameter to reach the front bracket in a turn. Also, I believe there is a stop that keeps them from turning too far. The axle has to move forward and swing toward the tractor to enable the tires to reach the weights.

 

[MODiesel]

I run front weights on my TC29D with SuperSteer. They are actually the 100lb weights that NH doesn't recommend on these tractors, and they are about 3in thick. I can barely fit two of them on the front weight bar and still get bolts through the frame holes.

Now, I run R4's, which I wish were R1's. All the R4's that I've seen have a wider carcass than any R1. And, at full lock, I clear my oversized weights no matter where I am on my varied terrain.

My only guess is that the Class III boomer SS geometry may be a bit different in relation to the frame vs. the Class II's. Either that or the operator was running weights clearly designed for a larger tractor. I dunno. I only know that they don't rub on my TC29D.

Later,
Jay

 

[spencer200]

yeah that would be supersteer. I have not seen that happen with all the tractors we sell I am just surprised thats all. Maybe the weights he had where not newholland. I dont know it just sounds odd that it hits.

 

[Hoeman00]

When I got mine I got two weights and if u wanted more there is an extension weight bracket to let u use the max amount (I think it is 5 or so).
He needs to put the extension on the 45D.
My dealer had it in his spec book.

 

[Casimir]

I stopped by my dealer this morning to pay a bill, and did a little more drooling while I was there /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. It appears tractoritis is not fully cured just by buying one.

Anyway, they had 3 TC45Ds on the lot, 2 with SS and one with Standard steer. All three had R4s, and all 3 were parked with the wheels turned hard left to demonstrate the difference between SS and standard. With the R4s, they would not reach the weights - should clear by 1-2 inches. The standard steer wheel does not go forward far enough to reach the weight bracket at all, and the stop keeps the tire from rubbing the engine cowling.

So, it appears the problem might only occur with agressive R1s, which must be 2-3 inches larger in diameter than the R4s. Turfs should not be a problem, either. My friend didn't say anything about ordering larger than normal R1s, but I guess that is possible, also.

I will mention the extension bracket, in case he is not aware one is available. Thanks for the tip.

Sitting here now, waiting for the dealer to deliver my 1520, which they just serviced...supposed to start raining tonight and tomorrow /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif = reduced seat time this weekend.

 

[MODiesel]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So, it appears the problem might only occur with agressive R1s, which must be 2-3 inches larger in diameter than the R4s. )</font>

Casimir, that's a good point. I was thinking in terms of width, but the extra height of an R1 would equate to extra "reach" towards the center of the tractor as the axle swings forward. I know the TN's clear this fine, but my dealer doesn't stock many TC's with R1's, so I have no way to verify.


</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sitting here now, waiting for the dealer to deliver my 1520, which they just serviced...supposed to start raining tonight and tomorrow = reduced seat time this weekend.)</font>

We've had good rain here for two days. I'd say we're just about up to zero seat time this weekend. Unless I need to break out the "fear"-wheeler. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Later,
Jay

 

[spencer200]

That would make sense to me that it is happening with ag tires we have never sold a supersteer with anything but turfs or industrials so i have not seen one with ags turning I missed that when I read your post the first time.

 

[Hoeman00]

I found tire sizes for class III
8-16 R-1 30.5" OD
10-16.5 R-4 30.8" OD
Plus the R-4 is 2.5" wider tire.

 

[AndyMA]

That 18" is an interesting number but remember it is the inside diameter of a circle. You still have the entire remainder of the tractor making the circle. A SS tractor will complete a full turn in under it's wheelbase with brakes. Here is some of the text from a post I made in the Pricing Buying forum Having had a larger tractor (TN75) both with and without SuperSteer I can tell you that there is no comparison in turning radius. I went to New Hollands web site to get some numbers as I was confused by some on the numbers in the previous posts. The NH TC29 has a wheelbase of 63" and turns in a 102" diameter circle with brakes. Supersteer TC29 has a wheelbase of 72 and will turn in a 60.5 in circle. TC 45 has wheelbase of 73.5" and turns a 127" circle. TC45 supersteer has 83" wheelbase and turns a 81" circle (again less than it's wheelbase)

Again as I've done in previous posts I would caution the use of SuperSteer if you will be doing much loader work since it can make the tractor quite unstable if you have a high load when the axle is rotated.

Hope this helps clarify the issue some. To keep it simple just remember the tractor with SuperSteer can spin in less than it's own wheel base. If you haven't driven one it is worth a trip to a dealer to try one out.

Andy