Considering a PT but concerned about support (A little Long)

landscapercarl · Feb 9, 2003

It's a 2425 hit the wrong key it's still a good machine though.
We will probably average 400 hrs. a year with it till motor gives out then I'll probably just put anew motor in it.

PhilNH5 · Feb 10, 2003

Some more questions from Phil

Folks,
Again thanks for all the replies. I appreciate your efforts on my tractor search. I especially like the ones from those who have done repair work themselves; the ones about how good factory support is or was whwn they needed it and finally the comparison of 3 pt hitch with the PT quick attach.

Kubota is offering 3% financing for 3 yrs. I was concerned about depleteting my savings/tax return (future spending as I haven't got it yet) to get the PT. Then I saw they work with 2 finance companies. So I send for an application to see terms and rates. Question #1 - has anyone used PT suggested finance co. Were you satisfied?

Question#2 - PT lists a load of 800 lbs. Is this realistic? Kubota and MF list 460 lbs as limit with a 900 lb breakout force. What exaxctly does that mean? Will the PT422 or maybe 425 lift as much as the others?

Again thanks for all the replies. Phil

MossRoad · Feb 10, 2003

Re: Some more questions from Phil

( Question #1 - has anyone used PT suggested finance co. Were you satisfied? )

I financed through other means, so can't help you with that one.

( Question#2 - PT lists a load of 800 lbs. Is this realistic? Kubota and MF list 460 lbs as limit with a 900 lb breakout force. What exaxctly does that mean? Will the PT422 or maybe 425 lift as much as the others? )

460 is the limit of what they say it will lift.
900 is the force to cause the hydraulic relief valve to open(I think)

On the PT400 series I don't know if 800 pounds is realistic or not. I have had the large bucket overflowing with granulated limestone... very heavy stuff. The tractor will lift it, however....... have you read about the PT Pucker yet?.... it is caused by what happens to the center of gravity when you turn an articulated vehicle, and it is amplified with a heavy load out front. As you turn, the rear of the vehicle comes closer to the front because it bends in the middle. So, as the rear comes closer, the center of gravity moves towards the load. It is weird. You can have a massive load a few inches off the ground. Standing still, start turning the unit. As you turn, the load dips down to the ground and the rear wheels come up. If you straighten the unit, the rear wheels set back down and the load comes back off the ground. For really heavy stuff, I now test the load before moving, by turning the wheels lock to lock with the load a few inches off the ground. If its safe, I go. If its not safe, I usually go anyway, but in reverse and slowly, with the load only 6 inches off the ground. I first experienced it with the "big log" video. I believe Hans is demonstrating it well( looks pretty comfortable, too) in this photo...Click here to see it. This is an extreme example, because the load looks small. However, it is also 8 feet or so further out and makes for a longer lever.

So, to answer your question... the tractor is plenty strong enough to lift 800 pounds. The rear wheels will come off the ground before you can exceed the capacity of the hydraulics. I've never had the relief valve open yet. But, depending on the bulk size of the load, not the weight, it might be hanging out too far in front to lift safely.

I don't have the BX to compare it too, Scott (waterglyn) might be able to help you compare them for FEL strength and pucker comfort level.

Another thing you should be aware of(maybe you already are), is the loader lift height might be an issue. The PT400 series will not do well trying to load a pickup truck from the side with the FEL. It lifts high enough to go over the side, but not high enough to dump. The bucket would hit the top of the bed. That MIGHT be solved with the newer model that is supposed to have a higher lift height. I load my car hauler trailer with dirt just fine, and I knew about this limit before I purchased the tractor, so I was comfortable with this decision and not disappointed when it arrived. It did everything as advertised, in my opinion. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PhilNH5 · Feb 10, 2003

Re: Some more questions from Phil

Moss,
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the 51 inch lift height. But like you I rarely if ever would load dirt or anything into the pickup. I wonder about the new extended height as well. But I believe Bmac said it would be 60 inches. Not comparable to the sub-compacts (72") but I can live with it.

I think the 4-in-1 bucket would allow for the loading of a pickup but I am not sure that is in my budget.

Glad the hydraulics can handle the claimed load.

Phil

hazmat · Feb 10, 2003

Re: Some more questions from Phil

460 is the limit of what they say it will lift.
900 is the force to cause the hydraulic relief valve to open(I think)


Moss, breakout force is the force that the bucket can apply when curling at ground level. Due to the geometry, the curl setup has greater mechanical advantage than the lift cylinders. You will find the same thing on your PT, it is easier to pop a stubborn rock, stump, sod or dirt pile by curling than lifting.

Charlie_Iliff · Feb 10, 2003

Re: Some more questions from Phil

 Question#2 - PT lists a load of 800 lbs. Is this realistic? Kubota and MF list 460 lbs as limit with a 900 lb breakout force. What exaxctly does that mean? Will the PT422 or maybe 425 lift as much as the others?

The 800 pounds is the amount you can pick up in the bucket. The boom on Hans's machine looks longer in the picture, but it is actually a little over 5 feet from the attach plate, at the end of the loader arms, to the center of the grapple. The grapple weighs about 100 lb. Before I built it, I calculated that there would be between 150 and 200 lb. lift capacity available with the boom at full extension. More, of course, if you curl the boom and pick up closer to the machine. The chunk of wood in the picture looks small at that angle, but it is a cherry fork, weighing probably 200 lb. The machine picked it up and put it on the boom truck when straight, but picked up the rear of the 425 when turned.
Long answer to a short question. The PT will pick up the 800 lb., and then some, and breakout force will be even higher. If the BX has a 460 lb. rating, then the PT has almost double that in real lift capacity.

MossRoad · Feb 10, 2003

Re: Some more questions from Phil

Thanks. I found that leverage stuff when I was moving some 3' by 4' x 8" chunks of a concrete slab with the pallet forks. I could pry them off the ground with the curl action, but couldn't lift them because the rear end would come off the ground. So, I used the forks like a sled and just dragged them backwards.

Tak · Feb 12, 2003

Moss,

Who is Ed? Is that full backhoe on the 400 from the 2400 series backhoe? What kind of modifications are required?

MossRoad · Feb 13, 2003

( Who is Ed? Is that full backhoe on the 400 from the 2400 series backhoe? What kind of modifications are required? )

Ed is a TBN member with some very neat ideas.
This is a link to a post by Ed that contains lots of good discussion and photos. Read the entire post and it will describe everything. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Tak · Feb 13, 2003

Thanks, MR. Few more questions, if you don't mind.

400 series machine - I've done a search (in fact, I've probably read every thread - to the best of my memory that is) but still have a few questions

Does it have enough lift to load pallets onto a dually flatbed (10k-15k gvw type truck) comfortably. Not sure where the 52" lift is measured to.

Anyone try a narrower tire setup (tire and wheel) to reduce the overall width of machine? Any problems in use or locating suppliers for wheel?

Does the tractor have enough traction to pull a ripper type attachment? Obviously there are many variables with the bar tread type tires, depth/amount of claws. In general, is it in the ballpark?

Tipping load - straightened up, can the hydraulics lift approximately 2x (or more) its rated capacity then start tipping? say 1600#.

micro hoe by PF Engineering. Anyone follow up with this setup?

trencher - anyone using have any feedback?

Thanks all for your time. I've been putting this aside for a few years now. Each time I read more comments, it gets harder to resist a purchase.