Container Weld Shop build -

[BukitCase]

OK, I kinda buried the numbers in my usual blather

Hoe cylinders -
2 Stabilizers
2 Swing cyls
2 Boom cyls (one each side)
1 Stick(dipper) cyl
1 Bucket cyl

Loader cylinders -
2 Lift cyls
2 Curl cyls
1 Auto level cyl. (Oh, and don't ask me exactly how it works, maybe I'll know when I'm done with ALL of 'em )

Here's a pic from the brush bucket build, and a marked up version -


Clear as mud, right??!? Steve

Oops, forgot your last question;
"The last picture is the rod with seals on the end, how do they come off, I'm assuming you're going to change everything?"

Yup, the gland has an external wiper seal, an internal wiper couple O rings and a "slider" thingy - the piston on these older cases is a split (2 piece) with a center piece and several "squished together" seals on both sides, with 2 recessed washers surrounding those. 1-1/8" fine thread bolt goes in the back of the rod (the straight end), and everything goes back on the rod and that bolt torqued to 450 lbs, THEN it gets shoved back into the barrel, tighten up the gland, put a new lock screw between gland and cylinder body (barrel) - here's an exploded view; #5 is the EXTERNAL wiper, 6 is the INTERNAL wiper/pressure seal, 3 is the gland, #8 and 7 are the O ring and backing ring that go right behind the outer face of the gland - Then # 12 and 13 are the "squishing washers" (NOT part of a kit), 14 and 15 are part of the kit, and 16 and 17 are the 450 lb. bolt/washer.


The outer end (gland nut end) is belled out, and the previous cylinders I did I wrapped the rod seals with some thin aluminum flashing til they started into the bell; worked well. You still need a heavy comealong or something to force things back together, and a good slather of hyd. oil if you actually want it to MOVE Hope that helps... Steve

Oh, BTW - that gland nut is an absolute ***** to clean out after the "hot wrench" treatment, but so's LIFE

 

[BukitCase]

One of the LEAST fun parts of rebuilding these cylinders (especially the smaller ones) is getting those inner seals distorted enough to go back into their groove inside the gland - (see item #6 in the previous exploded view)

In the first 5 cylinders I did, (all but one were larger diameter than this one) I tried twisting the seal into a figure 8 (easier warm than cold, but still not easy) I found I could really use 3 SMALLER but STRONGER fingers that could all fit inside the gland along with the seal (If wishes were horses, beggars would ride )

Well, guess what!!?! THIS beggar's not gonna be walkin' for THIS particular job :thumbsup:

Kit King - Rod Seal Install Tool Set - 5 Piece Hydraulic U-Cup Twistor Installation Tool Set: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

That kit is a little spendy, but I have 8 more cylinders that need kitted, and I decided it was worth it to me to spend another $9.50 per cylinder and have the tools for later; it showed up today, so after I get a couple dozen OTHER nagging things out of the way (like, manana) I'll see how it works.

From the look of it, I won't be sorry... Steve

 

[Oldpath05]

Ok first and foremost question is how exactly does that self leveling cylinder suppose to work...........

2 Boom cyls (one each side)<<<I didn't see those ones before, do they same thing as this one?>>>>>> 1 Stick(dipper) cyl Next time I see a backhoe I'll take a closer look, to me sounds like that tractor has overdosed on hydraulic cylinders.

"One of the LEAST fun parts of rebuilding these cylinders (especially the smaller ones) is getting those inner seals distorted enough to go back into their grove inside the gland - (see item #6 in the previous exploded view)" <<<<<<I think if I had that many cylinders to do I'd definitely get that seal twisting tool if I knew what I was doing to begin with.

"I found I could really use 3 SMALLER but STRONGER fingers"<<<<<<Maybe all you need is a cup of coffee>>>>>>> The Anybody Want Coffee Guy - YouTube

 

[BukitCase]

"Ok first and foremost question is how exactly does that self leveling cylinder suppose to work"

There ya go again, I just asked ya NOT to ask me :confused2: - actually, I DO know how it works; just not how to explain it well enough in a short time, and I gotta get up fairly early manana and go get a spare motor for the manlift; but I'll give it a shot manana sometime...

"2 Boom cyls (one each side)<<<I didn't see those ones before, do they same thing as this one?>>>>>> 1 Stick(dipper) cyl Next time I see a backhoe I'll take a closer look, to me sounds like that tractor has overdosed on hydraulic cylinders."

Only by one or two; it is one of the earlier construction type hoes, newer ones went to a single boom cylinder that's bigger diameter, makes plumbing simpler -

Think of a backhoe as just part of a human body - if you plant your feet (stabilizers) and twist your body at the waist (the turret, ran by the swing cyls) you can rotate.

Now, check out your ARM - the upper arm bone (the boom) has its own "muscles" to raise or lower - then the lower arm bone(s) have THEIR muscles (AKA cylinders) and finally, your wrist and hand (the bucket) needs ITS "muscle", AKA cylinder- so at the very least, a hoe needs THREE cylinders just for its "ARM" - Then there's one more cylinder for each "leg"/stabilizer, and the two SWING cylinders to rotate the entire "arm" so you can dump where you're NOT digging :thumbsup:

Chew on that a bit, and we'll get into self-leveling manana... Steve

 

[aczlan]

Ok first and foremost question is how exactly does that self leveling cylinder suppose to work...........

It is physically connected to the lift circuit so it moves in and out when the arms go up and down, but it is also hydraulically connected to the bucket cylinders.
As such, when the loader arms go up, it forces the leveling cylinder to extend which moves enough hydraulic fluid to make the bucket dump just enough to stay level (in theory).

Aaron Z

 

[BukitCase]

Aaron, that's at LEAST as clear and concise an explanation as I coulda managed even when I'm NOT sleep-deprived - thanks...

And you're correct about the "in theory" part; mine doesn't quite live up to the theory, so I'm hoping that when that particular "alligator" gets to the top of the pond, a new kit will move theory and fact closer together ...Steve

 

[Oldpath05]

It is physically connected to the lift circuit so it moves in and out when the arms go up and down, but it is also hydraulically connected to the bucket cylinders.
As such, when the loader arms go up, it forces the leveling cylinder to extend which moves enough hydraulic fluid to make the bucket dump just enough to stay level (in theory).

Aaron Z

Ok connected to the hydraulic system, that makes some since, I mean when I see it connected to the FEL like the lift cylinders are, I was thinkinking that makes no since how can that keep the bucket level while lifting...........

 

[Oldpath05]

"Ok first and foremost question is how exactly does that self leveling cylinder suppose to work"

There ya go again, I just asked ya NOT to ask me :confused2: - actually, I DO know how it works; just not how to explain it well enough in a short time, and I gotta get up fairly early manana and go get a spare motor for the manlift; but I'll give it a shot manana sometime... Steve

You'll learn after awhile when certain people tell me not to walk on the grass.............................I also decided to join this club, it's very quite exclusive club not everyone can qualify>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Oldpath05]

"2 Boom cyls (one each side)<<<I didn't see those ones before, do they same thing as this one?>>>>>> 1 Stick(dipper) cyl Next time I see a backhoe I'll take a closer look, to me sounds like that tractor has overdosed on hydraulic cylinders."

Only by one or two; it is one of the earlier construction type hoes, newer ones went to a single boom cylinder that's bigger diameter, makes plumbing simpler -
Steve

That explanation has to be re-written in english, mainiac version.................I know how the human body works but not sure if I have three hydraulic cylinders hooked at my elbow doing the same thing. Maybe in the 70s Case decided to make a BH with extra cylinders to sell more repair parts, then one day Japan stepped in and said hey 3 cylinders doing the same thing, that's crazy we can build better equipment than that, and the rest is history... All done chewing need more input.

 

[BukitCase]

I was interchanging "muscle" with "cylinder", since those are what MOVES the various parts -

"Maybe in the 70s Case decided to make a BH with extra cylinders to sell more repair parts"

Using that reasoning, God musta REALLY liked DOCTORS (as in, making 'em RICH ) - count the muscles that might need fixing :laughing:


Also, keep in mind that the Case was/is an INDUSTRIAL machine, this particular one was "rode hard and put away wet" if it was put away at all - when I got it, it was ALREADY over 30 years old with little (if ANY) signs of maintenance, and STILL WORKED...

TractorData.com J.I. Case 58B Construction King industrial tractor information

Having worked in heavy industry the last 35 years (and running a crew of ALL crafts (welders, millwrights, electricians, pipe fitters, machinists, instrument techs) for the last 10, I REALLY appreciate things that are built to LAST - which is why I bought the Case instead of John Deere, Cat, etc; several of those use a SINGLE, CENTER mount cylinder for the FEL curl (a MUCH weaker design) -

Also, Case is the ONLY loader I've seen that uses REVERSING bell cranks (look at mine in the pics) that make CURL STRENGTH the strongest because the cylinder(s) PUSH to CURL the bucket - this increases BREAKOUT force a LOT over the way everybody ELSE does it, because it's using the WHOLE PISTON AREA to curl...

Here's a few pics of hoes and excavators - notice that most (if not ALL) excavators use TWO cylinders to move the BOOM; that tells me it's a STRONGER way to do it, since "HOE-ing" is what excavators are BUILT for (instead of an "after-thought")

Backhoe Stock Images, Royalty-Free Images & Vectors | Shutterstock

Gotta go for now, that curl cylinder ain't gonna put ITSELF back together... Steve