Converting Tiller to reverse rotation

LD1 · Jun 20, 2013

Looking for a little feed back here on what to do...

Picked up a yanmar RS1400 tiller pretty cheap. About 1/3 the cost that I see used KK and beefco tillers sell for. Here's what we are dealing with

The thing works okay behind my L3400, but not nearly as well behind the 8n. The KKII we always borrowed did fine behind the 8n. The rotor speed on the yanmar is 180rpm. I see 220 is about the norm. So I tore into the gearboxes hoping I could swap around some gears and get a but faster rotor speed. No dice.

So now I am thinking about a plan B. Converting to reverse rotation. I will rotate the gearbox up and over 180 degrees so the PTO is facing out the back. The guarding can be reversed easily. (Sideplates are the same, bolt holes are already there for either side.) Then its just re-configuring the 3PH. I will make new tabs for the TL to mount to the gearbos (cause they will be off), and take the yellow plates off, and weld on the back side.

So......whats your opinions? Think it will work fine as a reverse rotation tiller with 180 rotor RPM?? any other thoughts or suggestions??

some more pics

leonz · Jun 20, 2013

LD1 said:
Looking for a little feed back here on what to do...

Picked up a yanmar RS1400 tiller pretty cheap. About 1/3 the cost that I see used KK and beefco tillers sell for. Here's what we are dealing with View attachment 323732 View attachment 323733

The thing works okay behind my L3400, but not nearly as well behind the 8n. The KKII we always borrowed did fine behind the 8n. The rotor speed on the yanmar is 180rpm. I see 220 is about the norm. So I tore into the gearboxes hoping I could swap around some gears and get a but faster rotor speed. No dice.

So now I am thinking about a plan B. Converting to reverse rotation. I will rotate the gearbox up and over 180 degrees so the PTO is facing out the back. The guarding can be reversed easily. (Sideplates are the same, bolt holes are already there for either side.) Then its just re-configuring the 3PH. I will make new tabs for the TL to mount to the gearbos (cause they will be off), and take the yellow plates off, and weld on the back side.

So......whats your opinions? Think it will work fine as a reverse rotation tiller with 180 rotor RPM?? any other thoughts or suggestions??

some more pics View attachment 323734 View attachment 323735 View attachment 323736

Have you given any thought to purchasing a PTO reversing gearbox to avoid all the work LD1?

Agsupplyonline sells the beasts that attach to the stub shaft of the rear PTO's BUT saying that I think you are looking at more than a thousand dollars for a reversing gearbox.

I also believe you will need to turn all the tiller blades 180 degrees too.................................

LD1 · Jun 20, 2013

Reversing box has several cons in this case

1. too much $$$
2. It actually isnt much work to do what I am doing. Adding the reversing box, and then reversing all the tines :mur: I already have things appart. All I gotta do now is assemble differently, and make just a few adaptations to the hitch.
3. Just another moving part to go wrong
4. did I mention cost?

oldnslo · Jun 20, 2013

LD,
any idea why the tiller does not work well behind the 8N? Travel speed to fast or some other reason.

LD1 · Jun 20, 2013

Yea, travel speed too fast. Even with it having the sherman. The rotor speed of the tiller is only 180rpm, and 220 seems about the norm from specs I have looked at with similar rotor diameters.

The KKII works good behind the 8n, but this one has a slower rotor, thus I am in the process of converting it as we speak and see how it turns out.

Arc weld · Jun 20, 2013

Slower rotor should use less HP. I used to have a pamphlet on getting the most out of your Howard rotovator. The original Howards were by far the best tillers ever made! It said a lot people make the mistake of creating too fine a tilth. I personally don't think it's worth the trouble to try and change it to a reverse rotation.

cmhyland · Jun 21, 2013

I'd just go over the area several times.... How big is the area your tilling with the 8N?

Regards,
Chris

LD1 · Jun 21, 2013

The work is actually all done as far as the "converting" goes.

Everything was already appart. All I had to do was relocate the lift brackets, and two tabs where the tubes meet the gearbox.

Now its just a matter of re-assembly, but I am going to fix a few things on the shield first and give it a painting.

LD1 · Jun 21, 2013

Well, since I am going ahead and doing this, I'll post some update pictures as I go here...

In this pictures, you can see the two things I have to cut off and relocate. 1st is the yellow bracket for the lift pin. It needs to go onto the other side of the tube. 2nd thing is the little eyelet looking mount that comes off the 6-bolt flange of the tube end. This is used for part of the top-link mounting as well as rear deflector. These also need relocated to the back

Here is the eyelets cut off

And re-welded on as well as the yellow brackets

And now todays agenda, re-working the beat-up and rotted shield. If I get this done today, I hope to shoot some paint, and maybe tomorrow I will assemble after my bushhogging job

eddie48 · Jun 21, 2013

What kind of ground do you have to till? Here in CT with all of the rocks in the soil, I would worry about breaking something with counter-rotating tines. Is there a slip clutch?

LD1 · Jun 21, 2013

no slip clutch yet but I will add one. no rocks either. Just clay mix

DaveOmak · Jun 21, 2013

Are you reversing the rotation of the tines ??? that will pile dirt up between the tiller and the tractor.... My NAA has a Howard gear in the tractor... It is for tilling by reducing ground speed of the tractor... If you have a Sherman 2 or 3 speed.... under, direct and over, your PTO RPM should change depending on which position the Sherman is in.... The Sherman in my NAA changes the PTO RPM from 0.66 - 1.0 - 1.52 ... Try Over in the Sherman and 1st gear in the tranny... Or a step up gear on the PTO output.....

LD1 · Jun 21, 2013

The sherman in an add on in front of the transmission. And the PTO is transmission driven.

So yes, stepping up the sherman increases PTO speed, but ground speed in first increases by the same ratio. So it wont do anything to help the fact that the tiller isnt running much faster than ground speed.

Car Doc · Jun 21, 2013

Just an idea that comes to mind but what about a #60 or 80 chain driven jack shaft a guy could gear it any way he wanted as far as forward rotation anyway. I would need to be offset but on a tiller that shouldn't be a huge issue. I see it in my mind but haven't reasoned out all the problems its just food for thought.

LD1 · Jun 21, 2013

Car Doc said:
Just an idea that comes to mind but what about a #60 or 80 chain driven jack shaft a guy could gear it any way he wanted as far as forward rotation anyway. I would need to be offset but on a tiller that shouldn't be a huge issue. I see it in my mind but haven't reasoned out all the problems its just food for thought.

I thought about that, as I have pleanty of 60,80,and 100 sprockets and chain.

The problem is the existing gearbox. Not wide enough to a very big sprocket in, no where to put a good tensioner without a LOT of modification, and the shafts are currently splined, so those would either need turned smooth and have a keyway cut.

ALOT more work than reversing the direction.

LD1 · Jun 21, 2013

Heres a start on repairing the shield

Peice of 2 x 2 x 1/4" angle laid in there. That should make it pretty ridgid.

bigtiller · Jun 21, 2013

Sounds like a fun project, I hope it works out for you.

It will be fun to see just how tough the old rice tiller is. It should hold up for awhile, but I wouldn't abuse it too much. I'm betting the old ford won't like it much either. Reverse tine tillers need a little extra horse power.