cpvc plumbing

[woodlandfarms]

What pex crimper has a light? Mine is the side crimp but no light. Under the house, cursing in the mud, wish I had a light to tell me when I got it right. Didn't know there were flavors of pex either. The stretch system looks kinda slow and arduous (relative to the pex process, of course nothing like sweating copper).

 

[Cord]

This is the one. I've had it for several years now and havn't replaced the batteries yet. One handed application is super nice. Takes a little practice to work the release, but once you figure it out the tool comes right off. Oh, and you can stop, release the tool and start crimping again. You can also rotate the ring with the tool.

https://www.iwiss.com/bj0010c-one-h...lspex-cinch-tools-for-stainless-steel-clamps/

 

[woodlandfarms]

This is the one I have...

Zurn Pex PEX Quick Clamp Tool, Medium QCRTQCM | Zoro.com

Totally frustrating in that our local plumbing supply store lets you "rent" the unit. Wife was in a mood and said you cannot buy it (how dare I listen to her). So I rented it 3 times (which was the purchase price) and then bought the darn thing...

TOTALLYFRUSTRATING.

Anyone looking for a good used wife. Mid miles, high maintenance

 

[s219]

I have seen some of the side crimp cinch tools and they look nice -- like they'd be a lot easier to operate in tight spaces.

Recently, I have noticed that the standard ring crimper often results in crooked rings. They are acceptable (even cut a few open to check) but it always bothers me when I see that. You just lose a lot of control with the ring crimper since it's big and awkward and obscures the ring. I may pick up a side crimper next time I have a big project. I really should have done that before I put in my water softener -- crimped a bunch of rings (enough for 50+ connections) and it was getting annoying towards the end.

 

[PAGUY]

Anyone looking for a good used wife. Mid miles, high maintenance?

I have a friend who is 70 yrs old and never married who would be perfect for her. He is very wussy and easily manipulated by women. Negative factor is that he is the internal pessimist (never happy about anything and lives by Murphy's Law - if something can go wrong it will for him.):laughing:

 

[PAGUY]

Anyone looking for a good used wife. Mid miles, high maintenance?

I have a friend who is 70 yrs old and never married who would be perfect for her. He is very wussy and easily manipulated by women. Negative factor is that he is the internal pessimist (never happy about anything and lives by Murphy's Law - if something can go wrong it will for him.):laughing:

 

[newbury]

Actually, it's about half the cost of copper. That's why it's being considered. Need to be able to drain the system and pex sags so it could trap water and freeze. Besides, pex puts an odor into the water that I don't care for.

Copper had been up to $4.50/lb and now is less than $2.50/lb, so now might be a time to use copper.

I would strongly suggest PEX over CPVC. Would not use copper anymore (Not because it isn't good, it is just way to pricey.). One of our homes is PEX, one is Copper, I did the PEX myself and it was a great process. Didn't use Sharkbite because of the cost, just used the crimping tool.

I don't like CPVC due to freezing issues. Pex seems much more impervious to freezing.

CPVC/PVC definitely has freezing issues. Thirty five years ago my wife had a nice 2 story house in Columbus, MS, typical of the area it was up on blocks with a crawl space. She left it vacant over the winter and the pipes froze.
Looked like someone had thrown a hand grenade under the house, sharp shrapnel ALL OVER.
Coming from Northern Vermont I was familiar with freezing COPPER pipes. They might split in one place, but they did not shatter all over. CVPC - can't plumb, virtual cr@p.

A few years back when I was pricing CPVC vs copper, the price was minimally different. Copper prices have gone thru the roof so pricing is probably different now.

The pec tubing does have a taste for a while. After few weeks it disappeared. I put some in my parent's house a cuppla years ago. It tasted like licking a plastic shower curtain.

Now how would you know what a plastic shower curtain tastes like?

Pex, copper, and maybe CVPC all have their place. Water chemical conditions may affect copper and CVPC. If your house WAS done in copper retrofitting PEX may be a pain. I've an apartment and a house to redo the plumbing on and I'm leaning towards pex, but on two other houses which are copper based I'm redoing/repairing with copper. Especially since using push on fittings in exposed areas, like between overhead joists, is so simple.

 

[the old grind]

We use copper crimp rings and the MIL-3 Pex Crimp tool (much like the Zurn to use, must use 'check' gauge accordingly to account/adjust for tool wear). All of our stub-outs (from floor to 'shut-off' valve) are copper, the rest is PEX unless spec'ed by customer.

PEX will withstand freezing better than all others, so blowing out with air need not be as thorough as with copper or the rigid polys. 'Sticks' and coils are available locally in red, blue, and white. We rarely use coil or colors (mostly white) and once in a while an apprentice will get the H & C switched when tying in drops ... :laughing

IMO, PVC and CPVC are, at best, penny-wise and pound-foolish. Sometimes newer IS better, and I'm sure it'll be a while before something better than PEX comes along. (no probs yet with plastic fittings, btw)

 

[GLyford]

I had started using blue/red on my supply pipes, and when my plumber replaced the rest continued doing that. I don't know if that's his normal practice or just because I had started that way. The underfloor heat system is plumbed in white.

While I know intellectually that it doesn't matter once the rock goes up, it does leave me with a warm fuzzy for later repairs.

 

[clemsonfor]

I have it at the farm. The stuff thats been in there 30-40 years is pretty brittle but i dont taste anything unusual. And if you dont support the cpvc it will sag and trap as well.

I have not waited for glue joints the one day or whatever like it says and dont have any problems with it. Most times were maybe 5-30 mins after i glued them.

Its super easy to fix if you can get to it. And i would use it again...although this was put into the house before i was born...i keep patching it up with it.

And whoever thinks copper costs the same as cpvc is not looking at the prices? A 10 foot stick of 1/2 copper i think was like $14 and a 10 foot stick of cpvc is like $5. Thats almost 1/3 of the cost and the fittings are like half or 1/3 of the copper fittings cost as well.

 

[clemsonfor]

The other thing about copper is that its going to corrode through eventually and leak.

Cpvc might not be to code some places??

 

[clemsonfor]

In my part of the world (Western BC) I beleive CPVC has been banned for years. It apparently breaks down when exposed to chlorinated water and becomes too brittle. (so I've been told) Had it in a house I bought 5 years ago and had a heck of a time finding transition fittings that would go from CPVC to either PEX or copper.
It's PEX all the way for me!

Your thinking of polybutelyne pipe that grey stuff with the crimps bands that failed. i think it was an early try at a cross bwtween pex and cpvc, The bands let go and ruined many houses. There was a huge class aciton law suit over it. That was the stuff they used in trailers also.

 

[clemsonfor]

View attachment 447644I used (contractor used) all copper with closed cell foam insulation on all the pipe which was ran underground and up thru the slab. The insulation keeps soil and concrete from contact with the pipe plus insulates the hot water line to which I have a recirculating pump attached at the water heater. This may cause a bit of extra electricity to keep the line hot but I have instant hot water which conserves our precious water resource. It sure beats what I had at my previous house where the master bath was at least 60 feet of line away from the heater and took it seemed like forever to get hot water from the faucet. In the photo you can see the water lines protruding from the soil prior to slab being laid.

I hate slabs and for that reason the plumbing is in it!!! That will be a nightmare when those copper pipes corrode through or you need to move drain lines.

 

[clemsonfor]

View attachment 447644I used (contractor used) all copper with closed cell foam insulation on all the pipe which was ran underground and up thru the slab. The insulation keeps soil and concrete from contact with the pipe plus insulates the hot water line to which I have a recirculating pump attached at the water heater. This may cause a bit of extra electricity to keep the line hot but I have instant hot water which conserves our precious water resource. It sure beats what I had at my previous house where the master bath was at least 60 feet of line away from the heater and took it seemed like forever to get hot water from the faucet. In the photo you can see the water lines protruding from the soil prior to slab being laid.

I hate slab construction for that reason. Pipes in the concrete. Imagine the mess and work in volved when those copper pipes corrode through and they will!!!

 

[clemsonfor]

My son's a licensed plumber and says that if you want cheap...PVC is the way to go. Next up would be cpvc but life expectancy is only around 20 yrs. After that is a crap shoot. He's replaced a lot of copper, pvc and cpvc over the yrs and, by far, the best and longest lasting is pex.
Just passing along data.
We built our place before was certified and had to settle for that which the contractor used.
Next time, you betcha, we're using pex.
Not nearly as expensive as copper and much longer lasting.

You cant plumb an entire house with pvc?? That is unless you dont have hot water!! pvc is not rated for hot water and you have to use cpvc.

 

[clemsonfor]

First, mobile homes used Poly Butil until 1996 when the lawsuits crushed that awful product out of existence. Do a read on it, no bueno.

For the aluminum hat wearing group, PEX has only recently been allowed for residential use in Los Angeles and has been slow to be adopted. Copper re-piping is still all the rage. I do not beleive CPVC was ever allowed as code.

The reason for pex being late to the table, though, looks to be a combination of big business and the plumbers unions (this is for the aluminim hat wearers). The rumor is that Copper Producers felt California lead the country in building codes and if the could keep PEX tamped down, they would profit. As well, plumbers take a third of the time to work with PEX and lost revenue is a big factor. You see plumbing trucks in LA always laden with copper even now.

Thats probably some plumber union thing where they worry that inexperienced "handy men" will swoop in and do jobs that professional plumbers need to handle as it wond need to be soldered..thats a skill...not a hard one to learn but still a skill unlike running a pair of crimpers. Oh i just read the rest of your post after i typed this to see you mention the union thing!!

 

[clemsonfor]

have cpvc in the barn with living space upstairs........it does seem to freeze and crack easier then copper and I don't like the plastic threaded connections to the fixtures.....but as a water distribution system it's been fine and it is a breeze to work with for any repairs or changes especially if you're working in a confined space......Jack

you can use glue on fittings that have a copper threaded end

 

[clemsonfor]

didnt realize i would have so much to say i really should of used the multi quote button!!!

 

[the old grind]

Threads in/on poly can be troublesome. Pipe 'dope' is a primarily a lubricant that allows threads to be tightened to where the threads deform/mesh together with no gaps. Try that with either male or female plastic threads and threads may not crush/interlock fully before something bottoms out or splits.

There are pipe 'dopes/sealants' that are plastic-safe and not overpriced. That said, if there's a place where teflon tape shines it's with plastic threads, where a bit of bulk can make up just a tad for iffy part fit on low pressure water (<100 psi, vs other) connections.

OT & btw: The latest price jump for brass is due to the mandated elimination of lead (was <1% anyway) that contributes free-machining properties to that metal. This shouldn't increase tooling costs by more than say 5% or so, but our cost has risen 15% or more in ~a year. tog

 

[Raspy]

Your thinking of polybutelyne pipe that grey stuff with the crimps bands that failed. i think it was an early try at a cross bwtween pex and cpvc, The bands let go and ruined many houses. There was a huge class aciton law suit over it. That was the stuff they used in trailers also.

I guess the polybutylene tube has some problems, but I've never seen any. My use of it was in closed loop radiant systems that are now as much as 35 years old with no tubing problems. It could be that domestic water and it's chemicals were not compatible with poly. The plastic fittings definitely had problems though and I steered clear of them. It wasn't the copper crimp rings, it was the acetal fittings that cracked or melted and weakened. Some crimp rings were aluminum, which could have been a problem in salty conditions.

Copper crimp rings and brass insert barbed fittings and an excellent way of connecting PEX. I've used many hundreds of them with no problems ever. Stainless cinch rings are fine too as far as I can tell.