OP
Creating a Coffee Table for Steph
- Thread starter EddieWalker
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Egon
Epic Contributor
Eddie; whats in the plan for when the new coffee/storage table gets filled up.
By the way - Nice work
By the way - Nice work
3RRL
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Eddie,
Just another interesting post showing your many talents! We are interested in what it will look like finished too. I'll bet Steph is really pleased with you.
Just another interesting post showing your many talents! We are interested in what it will look like finished too. I'll bet Steph is really pleased with you.
JazzDad
Gold Member
OK, I have to know: is Steph wearing a glove, or did she fish out the stirring stick from the gallon jug of stain?
scott_vt
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Good Evening Guys,
I PMed Eddie earlier today and expressed my concern on his table design. For all of you that am wondering what Im talking about go back to page 2 and look at oictures 044 & o45.
The problem is that he glued up a solid wood top and then used edging around the entire edge of the table. That looks great rather than looking at end grain. You have a nice looking edging and it makes the top look thicker. Unfortunately, its not quite that simple ! His table will look fine tommorrow and next week and probablly next month. The problem will rear its ugly head when that Texas humidity kicks in around next April or May. Those boards are going to expand and push those nicely mitered corners apart, creating gaps or worse I was content to just PM Eddie and tell him of this flaw, but being the type of guy he is, he told me to post my opinion !
Im sure many of you guys have seen tables that look similar to Eddies. The difference is that those tables more than likely have a plywood top or MDF that has had a veneer laminated onto it, subsequently it will not move as I say, actually expand and contract is what Im getting at. And then of course you can use the type of edging that Eddie used and get away with it!
There is also one other way to hide end grain when using a solid wood top with an edging board on the ends but it requires much more work than just biscuit joining the edging. You need to dado the ends of the table to create a tongue and then router a matching slot in the edging just slightly longer than the dadoed tongue. Thats over simplifying the process because you have to calculate how much expansion potential you have for your particular table top. When the edging is fitted onto the tongue, you drill through both the edging and the tongue. Remove the edging and then elongate the holes in the tongue for your expansion. Glue only the center section of the tongue and reassemble. By doing this your glued up top will not seperate at your glue joints.
Back to Eddies problem : 1 He can live with it and hope the gaps are not objectionable
2 He could remove the edging, but unfortunately he would still have to cut an additional 1/2" off each side to remove the biscuit slots.
3 He could leave it as is and make another top when he has the time.
My thought is to leave it as is for now and make another top when he can.
Another item is attaching the top to his base. Same principle, if he screws it from underneath, he needs to elongate the screw holes for expansion.
One more thing and then I will fade away Whenever I make a coffee table or such, I dado a 1/4" slot in the support rails running between the legs and then use L shaped clamps that fit into the dadoed slot and screw through those to attach the top. This way the table can expand and contract all it wants and I never worry about having the top pull apart on me.
Hopefully I have saved someone from making a similar mistake.
I PMed Eddie earlier today and expressed my concern on his table design. For all of you that am wondering what Im talking about go back to page 2 and look at oictures 044 & o45.
The problem is that he glued up a solid wood top and then used edging around the entire edge of the table. That looks great rather than looking at end grain. You have a nice looking edging and it makes the top look thicker. Unfortunately, its not quite that simple !
His table will look fine tommorrow and next week and probablly next month. The problem will rear its ugly head when that Texas humidity kicks in around next April or May. Those boards are going to expand and push those nicely mitered corners apart, creating gaps or worse I was content to just PM Eddie and tell him of this flaw, but being the type of guy he is, he told me to post my opinion !Im sure many of you guys have seen tables that look similar to Eddies. The difference is that those tables more than likely have a plywood top or MDF that has had a veneer laminated onto it, subsequently it will not move as I say, actually expand and contract is what Im getting at. And then of course you can use the type of edging that Eddie used and get away with it!
There is also one other way to hide end grain when using a solid wood top with an edging board on the ends but it requires much more work than just biscuit joining the edging. You need to dado the ends of the table to create a tongue and then router a matching slot in the edging just slightly longer than the dadoed tongue. Thats over simplifying the process because you have to calculate how much expansion potential you have for your particular table top. When the edging is fitted onto the tongue, you drill through both the edging and the tongue. Remove the edging and then elongate the holes in the tongue for your expansion. Glue only the center section of the tongue and reassemble. By doing this your glued up top will not seperate at your glue joints.
Back to Eddies problem : 1 He can live with it and hope the gaps are not objectionable
2 He could remove the edging, but unfortunately he would still have to cut an additional 1/2" off each side to remove the biscuit slots.
3 He could leave it as is and make another top when he has the time.
My thought is to leave it as is for now and make another top when he can.
Another item is attaching the top to his base. Same principle, if he screws it from underneath, he needs to elongate the screw holes for expansion.
One more thing and then I will fade away
Whenever I make a coffee table or such, I dado a 1/4" slot in the support rails running between the legs and then use L shaped clamps that fit into the dadoed slot and screw through those to attach the top. This way the table can expand and contract all it wants and I never worry about having the top pull apart on me.Hopefully I have saved someone from making a similar mistake.
OP
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Scotty,
Thanks for the detailed explination. I now understand how I should have done it, but what's done is done. I'm not sure how bad the damage will be with it inside the house and I'm kind of curious to see what happens. Obviously it's a good thing I'm not trying to make a living with my woodworking. hahahahha
In our PM's I mentioned screwing some plywood to the underside to help hold the top together. If it doesn't hold the table together, it will give me a good mounting point for my bracket.
The second picture shows a picture of a bracket I'm going to make so we can lift the table top up to eat off of it. Our home is very small and we don't have a dinning room or even a diner table. The kids eat at the breakfast bar and we eat at the coffee table. My goal is to be able to lift the top up and eat without bending over the coffee table. hahahaha
Eddie
Thanks for the detailed explination. I now understand how I should have done it, but what's done is done. I'm not sure how bad the damage will be with it inside the house and I'm kind of curious to see what happens. Obviously it's a good thing I'm not trying to make a living with my woodworking. hahahahha
In our PM's I mentioned screwing some plywood to the underside to help hold the top together. If it doesn't hold the table together, it will give me a good mounting point for my bracket.
The second picture shows a picture of a bracket I'm going to make so we can lift the table top up to eat off of it. Our home is very small and we don't have a dinning room or even a diner table. The kids eat at the breakfast bar and we eat at the coffee table. My goal is to be able to lift the top up and eat without bending over the coffee table. hahahaha
Eddie
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Egon
Epic Contributor
Not to fear Eddie; some of your wifes work will quickly cover anything that does happen!
Bird
Rest in Peace
Scotty, I think I understand your concern, but when you say
, I have a question. I would understand if the problem showed up if the table were in a non-climate controlled building such as a shop building, but will you have the same thing in an air-conditioned home?
scott_vt
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Bird said:
Mornin Bird,
When I PMed Eddie I told him it may not be quite as big a problem in a climate controlled building but IMHO eventually it will show up. Whether it shows up when they lose power or next year, or at some point down the road it will happen. Obviously the larger the table top, the greater amount of potential expansion that you have. Even though Eddie refers to this as a small table, its size is fairly significant. I unfortunately dont have my reference material handy on expansion cofficients handy but will look it up when I get a chance.
I failed to mention in last nights post that he can minimize the amount of moisture that the top picks up by sealing the entire table top after he has settled on his stain color and it has been lightly sanded.
I was hoping some other woodworkers like Cliff and Jeff would jump in here to echo my sentiments but maybe they have not seen this post yet. In any event I will be happy to help in any way I can !
Michael_E_Tx
Silver Member
Hey Eddie and Scott. I've been following along here and would like to contribute to the discussion. Scott I defer to your experience building new tables, I have not done much in that way, especially this type of tabletop construction. I am a retired woodworker, but my career was almost entirely focused on major repairs to valuable antiques. I understand and agree with your ideas about how to deal with expansion, however in this case, I will predict exactly the opposite.
I think your tabletop will shrink Eddie. This is because you've fabricated your top from planks that you've just cut from a log. It doesn't really matter how long that log has been sitting, in my eyes, you have green wood. Green wood shrinks. How much spalted cedar will have a will to move, I can't really predict, but I would say that I believe spalted wood of any kind will have less will to move. Spalt, by definition is rot, and rot, even partial, absorbs some of the movement of solid portions of the wood.
So I think you may get away with it, the top glued up in the manner you have done. I agree with Scott about staining the underside the same as the top. In fact, I would go a step farther and suggest you remove your plywood braces if they are not glued on, and apply not only the stain but whatever other finish you apply to the top. Then reattach your cross braces.
Clever idea with the bracket and adjustable height tabletop.
Mike
I think your tabletop will shrink Eddie. This is because you've fabricated your top from planks that you've just cut from a log. It doesn't really matter how long that log has been sitting, in my eyes, you have green wood. Green wood shrinks. How much spalted cedar will have a will to move, I can't really predict, but I would say that I believe spalted wood of any kind will have less will to move. Spalt, by definition is rot, and rot, even partial, absorbs some of the movement of solid portions of the wood.
So I think you may get away with it, the top glued up in the manner you have done. I agree with Scott about staining the underside the same as the top. In fact, I would go a step farther and suggest you remove your plywood braces if they are not glued on, and apply not only the stain but whatever other finish you apply to the top. Then reattach your cross braces.
Clever idea with the bracket and adjustable height tabletop.
Mike