Creating a Lake

[dancer]

Of course, Mother Nature doesn't have much respect for engineering -- good or otherwise. We had an 80-year-old pond that was lost in a few hours to a crawfish hole probably about a foot under the waterline.

 

[Renze]

Renze, That calculation did not include a small boy with a well practiced finger did it?

Great example. It also reminds me how disappointed I was when the USA didn't get with the metric program and stayed with the crap we inherited from the nobles of England.

No, it didnt include the boy...

I know, the metric system is a lot easier, it doesnt just depend on what you're used to... the metric system has a factor 10 between every unit. My cousins in Canada could remember that 1 meter is 10 decimeter is 100 centimeter is 1000 mm is 10.000 micrometer.
they could remember that within minutes when i told them, but when i asked them about the imperial system, they had to think a minute before they could tell me that 1 yard is 3 feet, a feet is 12 inches etcetera...

the metric system is invented by the French and i mean to remember that Napoleon prescribed the metric system to all his occupant countries (including the netherlands at that time) I think for the metric system being French, was the main reason that the English nobles didnt adopt it....

Well Adolf ****** started to build national highways through Germany, to move troops quickly through the country but also to get the unemployed to work on the highways, which was, next to blaming ethnic minorities (the jews, gypsies, black people, disabled, gays) a key to his popularity.

Usually a war gives a great tehnological impuls for the region, technologies that used to be too expensive for the commercial market are developed to ripeness and produced cheap for the military because war means life or death so it doenst matter if it makes economically sense.

the metric system, national highways, the internet, were all made available from the military need for them.

Oh by the way, some say that ****** created the Volkswagen, but that isnt exactly true: Because ****** put so much pressure on Ferdinand Porsche, Porsche had no choice but to steal the concept his best friend Hans Ledwinka (working at the Czech Tatra works) had, which he had discussed with his friend Porsche.
Porsche broke over 20 Tatra patents, and the law suit that resulted from that, was discontinued after ****** occupied Czechia and confiscated all patents.

In 1961 VW payd a sum of 1 million Reichsmark to Tatra. Off course this is nothing more than a tip, for the 25 million Beetles that have been built untill recently.


hmmm i think we're getting a bit off Eddies original topic...

 

[Renze]

Dung, i mislead us...

i said that 500 kg of water pressure against 1 cm of dam length (at a height of 10 meter) means 5 ton per meter of dam length.. 5 ton is 5000 kg which means that i forgot a zero... against every linear meter of 10 m high dam, a sideway force is applied of 500 ton.... with a weight of dirt of 1,5 ton per m3, the dam would have 333 cubic meters of dirt per meter length, to hold the 10 meters of water. This would theoretically be a sloped dam of 10 meters high and 66 meters wide in an exact triangular shape.

 

[KentT]

So, Eddie -- is it looking like it'll be filled by Christmas? We haven't seen many pics lately...

 

[EddieWalker]

So, Eddie -- is it looking like it'll be filled by Christmas? We haven't seen many pics lately...

For the last couple days I can't keep the pump running. It starts right up, but I'm lucky if it runs for a few hours. Sometimes it's only a few minutes. I've changed the oil even though it was still clear.

Two things might be the problem. The spark plug wire seems kind of loose. It will start right up without me touching the wire and it will keep running when I play with it.

The other thing is that the fuel filter is almost empty. I took it off and fuel flowed through it real fast and easy. I'm wondering what's going on from the line after the fuel filter and the carburator.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

The lake is a good 3 feet from being full. If I have to quite, I'm ok with what I have, but another foot sure would be nice. hahaha

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[Glowplug]

Eddie--You may have just flat-out worked that pump into submission. It's probably just tired!

 

[wushaw]

Float sticking in carburetor on the fuel flow problem.
Broken plug wire ...just keep wiggling it the break will show up soon enough

 

[ronjhall]

Two things might be the problem. The spark plug wire seems kind of loose. It will start right up without me touching the wire and it will keep running when I play with it.

The other thing is that the fuel filter is almost empty. I took it off and fuel flowed through it real fast and easy. I'm wondering what's going on from the line after the fuel filter and the carburetor.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

Thanks,
Eddie

If its the oil level switch, just jumper around it. Do the same with on/off (may need open circuit to run) switch.
Maybe dirt from blazer tank in pump tank. Remove and clean tank to get dirt out.

 

[Tim_in_IA]

Eddie I need a lake picture fix. Are ya still pumping?

 

[weldingisfun]

I'm with Tim in IA. A great Christmas present for all of us would be to see your lake on Christmas morning.
I've only been with TBN for a few days but I went back and read every thread. It was addictive and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I'm about 200 miles SW of you and am tempted to come on up and see the lake for myself. Maybe I'll get lucky and meet you in person, Eddie. I sort of feel that I know you already.
Thanks for letting us enjoy your project and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

 

[RobJ]

A couple pics taken from Sunday that a dam can fail. I will say that while the dam in this pictures was constructed just fine (lot of red clay, decent size), the overflow could not handle the hard rain. We figure it took less than 30 minutes to wash it out once the water started going over the top because (if I can find the pic), the water was backed up behind it a ways.

 

[EddieWalker]

The pump is still not running for any period of time.

I have fresh oil in it, so I'm hoping that's not the problem, but Ron's advice of bypassing the oil sensor cutoff is probably my next course of action.

The spark plub was bad. The little screw on thingy on the top was totaly wore out from vibration. It just fell apart and the threads are just about gone.

It's some asian sparkplug without any reference numbers, so I just sort of bought one that was the same size. It might be the problem, but the engine fired right up with it and ran for half a day. When I checked on it before dark, it was off. It started on the first pull, but only ran for a little bit.

I pulled off the bowl on the carberator and fuel is flowing into it freely. Or at least it was when I checked it.

My brain is telling me it's a fuel problem, but since I don't know how to fix it, I'm gonna eliminate problems by rewiring the low oil preasure switch. If it dies when that's not working, then I'll have the problem narrowed down.

Glowplug might have it right, I just wore it out. hahaha

Tim,

We're getting a small amount of rain right now and a few big storms are being predicted over the next few days. The lake hasn't changed much with the pump problems I'm having, so I haven't taken any picutures.

I'll take some and post them this weekend for sure as that is when the Christmas Eve Party is and I want to take the pump out by then anyway. Then the rest of the water will come for the rains over the next few months.

Eddie

 

[weldingisfun]

I don't know, but it looks as though there were more contributing factors than just the the heavy rains. The before pics show trees growing on the inside of the dam, read that roots. And, the overflow is directly in the path of the breach in the dam. Water could have been weakening the dam along the sides of the pipe for years. The heavy rains may just have been the little extra push needed to cause the breach.

Anyone else out there have an opinion?

 

[patrick_g]

It is important that there be a way for the impounded water to escape in an overflow event WITHOUT going over an earthen (gravity) dam. The turbulance in the water going over the back side of the dam will erode it very quickly. Ideally there will be a wide and shallow angle "swale" to lead the overflow water away from the backside of the dam. The wide shallow angle swale reduces the errosion forces and it is less likely you'll get a big inconvenient errosion cut ditch.

I'm not arguing against an overflow drain pipe. Some of my ponds have them but whether or not a pond has one it must have a safe way of passing water safely away from the dam in an overflow event. I have seen 9 out of ten of my ponds overflow much more water than the ones with pipes could handle.

I have one small pond, downstream of a couple others, with a 30 inch drain pipe. THis little pond get overflowed into by two larger ponds and NEEDS the 30 inch drain. I have some second thoughts where I think maybe the 30 incher isn't enough as my driveway goes over that dam and an overflow event would endanger the driveway/dam as there is no safe away-from-the-dam water path. When constructing the house there woiuild be times when there was excess concrete to have to dispose of. I had them dump on the backside of that dam. It is nearly all coated in a couple inches or more of concrete on the backside. I expect that to help wth the backside erosion problem shoiuld the 30 inch pipe not keep up.

A couple observatioins:

1. The pix of the dam seem to show that the top of the dam was the lowest place surrounding the pond so in an overflow event the water would go over the dam not some other place more safe.

2. The dam didn't look to be high enough in the air above the water level to have enough weight to properly hold the underwater portion of the dam in place.

An earthen dam should NEVER have the water get close to the top.

Pat

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm with Tim in IA. A great Christmas present for all of us would be to see your lake on Christmas morning.
I've only been with TBN for a few days but I went back and read every thread. It was addictive and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I'm about 200 miles SW of you and am tempted to come on up and see the lake for myself. Maybe I'll get lucky and meet you in person, Eddie. I sort of feel that I know you already.
Thanks for letting us enjoy your project and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Thank you for your kind words and welcome to TBN!!

I always enjoy showing fellow TBN'ers around and have enjoyed meeting those who have come by. Feel free to PM me when you'll be in the area. I can never tell for certain when I'll be here, but with a little notice, I can let you know.

Merry Christmas to you and your family too.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Hey Rob,

Thanks for posting the pics. It's very sad to see a failed dam, but of the ones I have seen, they are all just like that one. Small farm tank that had water come over the top and erode a ditch through it.

At least it's a simple fix and a good oportunity to clean up those trees. It almost looks like a good thing as now it can be done better than before!!!

I spent allot of hours agonizing over where to put the overflow until I figured out the simplest way was going to also be the best way. You wouldn't believe the plans I had drawn up for a concrete spillway over the dam. hahahhhaha

Luckily the whole project took long enough for me to not rush into doing something that I'd regret. I'm very pleased with my spillway, but still want to see how it performs under an extreme storm so I can make modifications if I need to.

Thanks for posting the picutures.

Eddie

 

[RobJ]

I don't know, but it looks as though there were more contributing factors than just the the heavy rains. The before pics show trees growing on the inside of the dam, read that roots. And, the overflow is directly in the path of the breach in the dam. Water could have been weakening the dam along the sides of the pipe for years. The heavy rains may just have been the little extra push needed to cause the breach.

Anyone else out there have an opinion?

This one has a long and short story. The short part is this dam washed out after 10 days of being rebuilt. The first big rain took it out(actually the first rain). It was built up bigger than before and that's why the trees are so close. The long story is my BIL continues to try and rebuild it. A single 12" pipe will not handle the overflow. This branch is in a perfect location. Collects tons of water, has a couple springs that run year round, even the past 3 years, never dry. But he is going to have to handle the surge. A 3 or 4' culvert would be the minimun if there wasn't a pond. It would need a couple 24's to handle the overflow. Since the dam is very short, he'd have to build it up higher, then put in the 24's as sort of a high culvert, then let them spill on the back side of the dam on some of the huge rocks there.

But I think he's finally given up and is going with my suggestions...a bridge or a low water cement crossing. He needs to get some 10000# tractors and pickups across it. For the past 2-3 years we build a wood bridge big enough for ATV's.

 

[john_bud]

The pump is still not running for any period of time.

I have fresh oil in it, so I'm hoping that's not the problem, but Ron's advice of bypassing the oil sensor cutoff is probably my next course of action.

The spark plub was bad. The little screw on thingy on the top was totaly wore out from vibration. It just fell apart and the threads are just about gone.

Eddie

Eddie, if the plug was in that bad of shape, what does the wire look like? I'm betting that the wire end and the wire itself is also broken. Have you looked for spark while wiggling it around?

jb

 

[EddieWalker]

John,

I'm not real knowledgeable on these small engines, heck, I'm not very knowledgable on any engine, but these little ones realy have me baffled.

I don't even know where the other end of the spark plug wire goes. I'll do some digging and take it off if I can. Maybe I can test it with one from the dump truck, or I'll find a new one.

Thanks for the help,
Eddie

 

[Renze]

Eddie i worked on Honda´s for about 6 months.
The off switch does nothing than short circuit the electrical impuls that was meant to set off the spark plug, into the engine block or cover so that it doesnt reach the spark plug.
If the wire touches bare metal somewhere, it could be your problem.

We usually tested them by taking out the spark plug, leaving it attached to the ignition cable, and pull the cord. If it gave a good spark, it had to be the fuel. We would usually clean it with an air compressor and then mount a new gasket set. That made 90% of the engines going again.
If there was a spark but still no run, we´d boil the carburettor in a hot tub cleaner with degreaser additive.

How many hours did the engine make up to now... My chief at that time said that these engines were made for only about 350 hrs.