Creating a Lake

[patrick_g]

Eddie, I hope you and your dam make it through this wet period. I suggest that you need to conside a taller dam not particularly wider (so long as the height/width ratio is within good engineering practice.)

The creek water can do you damage even if it is nearly motionless. By imersing much of the dam from both sides (lake and creek) the dam could really get saturated and with insufficient weight from dirt above the water line the dirt of the dam might not hold against the difference in hydrostatic pressure when the lake is higher than the creek. Recall the comments from the poster in Holland? Dirt above highest water level is very important. There is sometimes a reluctance to have enough dirt in the air because of aesthetics. Some folks think they have to have the lake or pond look brimming full but that is not good engineering practice.

My current pond consideration is if they will freeze over enough to make it dangerous for stock such that I need to go out early morninigs and break ice so they can drink. It is in the mid teens now. Cattle will walk out on the ice trying to break through to get a drink and can get stranded and die of exposure and exhaustion. IF they get too deep into hypothermia then if pulled out they often do not make it (neighbors experience, I haven't lost any.)

Pat

 

[EddieWalker]

Pat,

Thank you for your concern and advice. The water has receded, even though we had more rain last night. The total for this storm was 6 7/8 inches in two and a half days.

After reading your post, we went down to the lake to see what the damage was. I was very concerned with the back side of the dam where the creek had overflowed and flooded. I'm not positive, but I don't think it got high enough to touch the actual dam, but it was real close.

I walked along the side of the dam lookign for any sign of erosion, or squishy spots. It's completely solid and I wouldn't have any problems driving on it. In fact, as you can see in this first picture, there are still leaves on the ground where it was flooded. Close to the creek, the leaves are gone, bug further away, next to the dam, it looks undesterbed.

The other pictures show how much freeboard I have above the water line of the dam. We're standing in the pictures to give some idea of perspective. In boots, I'm 6 ft and Steph would be 5 and a half feet tall. The lake is about 4 1/2 inches from being full.

What do you think? Do I need more dirt?

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Here are a few pictures of the lake. The yardstick shows how much water we received from runoff. Overall, 6 7/8 fell and the water level rose 22 1/4 inches!!!!!

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[turbo36]

Here are a few pictures of the lake. The yardstick shows how much water we received from runoff. Overall, 6 7/8 fell and the water level rose 22 1/4 inches!!!!!

Thanks,
Eddie

What a special feeling that must be to look over the lake that you had the vision and the ability to build.

It truly is the ideas you act on that count.

 

[WayneB]

Eddie,

What a wonderful project! I am sure you will have a great number of stories to tell over they years while bass fishing!

Enjoyed reading the entire thread.

Wayne

 

[EddieWalker]

The first picture is of the biggest Birch Tree on my land. They are all over in the floodplain and I'm guessing that they do good in wet conditions. I have some concern about it's ability to live with the lake all around it, but figured it was worth the rist to try and keep it. If it dies, I have a problem on my hands that I'd rather not think about.

The big peninsula wasn't part of my original plan, but the more I planned a large dock or two that would be able to handle lots of people, the more complex and expensive it got. Then the liablity issue came up and the fear of an accident on it made me scrap the entire dock idea. That's when I decided on the peninsula.

To make it more attractive, I'm going to build a gazebo at the end of it. I have this picture in my brain of green grass surounding a gazebo that is built on cedar posts from the trees on my land.

The last picture is to show how much dirt is in the silt pit. I'm rough guessing that I traped over 2 yards in it, and I need to dig it out again.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[David Ferguson]

My earlier ratio was 1 inch of rain gave me 3 inches of water. Now I have another 4 5/8 inches, which gave me an additional 17 3/8 inches. Is that right?

Can somebody tell me what the ratio is of rain fallen to the rise of the lake?

Your new ratio is 1 inch rain gives 3.75 inch rise (17.375/4.625 = 3.75).

Or the other way: 1" rise for each .26" of rainfall.

 

[EddieWalker]

David,

Thank you, and welcome to TBN. It's an honor to have your first post be one to help me out.

Eddie

 

[Bird]

Eddie, those pictures just look plumb unnatural to some of us. After that much rain, I would have expected you to be at least ankle deep in mud, and if you'd had the kind of "soil" I had 60 miles south of Dallas, you'd also have 10 pounds of mud stuck to each shoe.

And we only got almost a third as much rain as you got. I'd say we were within a couple of hundredths of having exactly 2" over the three days.

 

[EddieWalker]

Hey Bird,

One of the things that I've learned about clay soil, and really love about it is what happens when it's compacted and able to drain. It sheds water and remains solid no matter how much rain it gets. But in areas that it's flat with standing water, or in areas that it's loose, it's the most miserable stuff around.

We have certain roads and trails that we walk where it almost doesn't matter if it's wet outside. But of course, we see a hog track, or a bird to take pictures of or just about any other reason to leave the safe areas, and we're ankle deep in it.

The dam is solid and did everything I'd hoped it would. My biggest fears didn't happen and I'm feeling good about it all. This was allot of rain, fairly quickly, and I came out of it without any damage at all.

As Harvey says, "Life is Good"

Eddie

 

[jinman]

Eddie, I've read your posts several times about planting bermuda grass seed and I'm really surprised at that. If I am correct (and I sure could be wrong) Bermuda is very hard to grow from seed. That's why it is typically sprigged into a field. The seed are very tiny and require almost perfect conditions of moisture and light. I believe there is some success with hydromulching, but the best way seems to be sprigging.

For a fast growth, I'd consider doing what Kent suggested with the rye, wheat, and fescue mixture. I believe that will provide you with a quick cover. I need to seed around my little pond and the rye, wheat, fescue mix is exactly what I will do at the first opportunity. Last year was too dry to plant anything and I didn't have any water to pump and irrigate with. Now I have a little moisture and plenty of water. I want to have my bank green for the spring. That's my goal.

I am absolutely no expert on grasses, but I just think seeding bermuda is a long and frustrating process. Maybe someone who knows can correct me or agree and give additional info.

Oops! I think I failed to say how nice your lake looks. It's kind of scary to see it so full this early in the year. A wet spring could exercise that spillway really quickly. I think it will take it though. I sure want to get down that way and see it before too much longer.

 

[EddieWalker]

Hey Jim,

Love to see you whenever you have a chance!!!!

I've never heard that bermuda was hard to plant as seed and I'm wondering if maybe you have your grass types confused. Just about every home and garden center sells bermuda seed since it's a fast, hardy ground cover. With just a little water and warm tempatures, it comes in easily and grows in almost all clay conditions. It does need at least half a day of direct sun and doesn't do well in shade. Here it's rarely watered and will stay green all summer long. Mine has always looked nice and lush during the worse heat and drought of summer without any rain for over a month!!!

Could you be thinking of St. Augastine grass? I know that you can't plant that in seed and it has to be either sprigged or planted in sod.

The pictures make it look worse than it is. The seed I put out came in allot better than I'd hoped for and I have very little erosion. It's dormant now and brown looking, so it's very dificult to see, but it is there. Unfortunatley, very little of it got big enough to send out runners, so it does look more like a fiscue than bermuda.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[Bird]

Jim & Eddie, I'm no expert on grasses either, but have had a little experience. There are quite a number of different "bermuda" grasses. I've never known of the "coastal bermuda", a very popular hay grass, being planted except by sprigging. The only time I've observed that procedure, the stuff came in bales and the contractor had a special wagon with a different kind of floor in it (reminded me of the manure spreader wagons). So it tore the bales up and put the sprigs in the ground. "Common bermuda" is popular for lawns and can be planted by seed, as Eddie mentioned. It'll sprout in the shade, get an inch or two high and probably die out then. You need water, heat, and sunshine and it'll do pretty well. And of course, the most successful is hydromulching, which can be done with several varieties of grass, including bermuda, fescue, etc. For best results, it needs to be kept damp until it gets to growing good. When we bought a new house in 1977, I had the lawn hydromulched with common bermuda in mid-July. My wife was not employed at the time, and our daughters were out of school for the summer, so instead of just watering with a sprinkler twice a day (as recommended), they kept it damp by hand watering. The instructions said to mow and fertilize after 30 days. With grass 6" high, I mowed the 28th day.

So, in my opinion, you're just wasting seed if you put common bermuda seed out in a shaded area, but if it gets full sun, plenty of water, and is sown during the heat of the summer, I sure like it.

 

[DmansPadge]

Looking great as always Eddie. I bet it's a bit chilly up your way tonight. Heck, down here tomorrow the high is 33!! I'm not cut out for cold weather... I'll take the 100 degree summer days anytime!! Have you had any snow?

 

[RobJ]

Eddie, i tossed out some common bermuda on my clay hill, all the locals never though it would grow. it has when it gets water but nothing else will grow without it either. i don't want bahia because it is impossible to cut well with about any mower. the bermuda just needs some warmth to get going.

someone mentioned the spillway, i bet it will look cool with a little blanket of water running over it.

so when can I come take a look? by your posts I have figured out your exact location. maybe just an hour north of my location in elkhart. it'd be a fun road trip.

Rob

 

[mjarrels]

Almost water ski time? Maybe jet ski? Great pictures.

mark

 

[jinman]

So, in my opinion, you're just wasting seed if you put common bermuda seed out in a shaded area, but if it gets full sun, plenty of water, and is sown during the heat of the summer, I sure like it.

Bird, I think you must have it right. I did some research and found this link:

Bermuda Grass

The link says that temperatures at night must be above 60º and that the best results are in the spring-summer transition with temperatures in the 80+ range. It seems that the "window" for bermuda to germinate and thrive is a lot narrower than some other grasses. The site does say that other grass or weeds can shade the bermuda and cause it to have problems getting established. That would be a reason for NOT planting other grasses before bermuda.

What I do is find an area of natural bermuda and scrape it up with my loader to relocate it where I want on my pond dams. I may try some seed this spring too. I have just never had a lot of luck with bermuda, but maybe I should give it another try.

 

[ronjhall]

Lake looks great Eddie.
Going to make sure that we make a stop at you place to just see the lake when we head south next month.
You must have taken me though all the sticky clay area's in November. My boots still have some of that clay stuck to them.

 

[Bird]

It seems that the "window" for bermuda to germinate and thrive is a lot narrower than some other grasses.

Jim, I hadn't seen the site you provided a link to, but it looks good. I didn't read all of it, but I think it applies even to hydromulching, too. I know when we had the yard hydromulched, a couple of weeks later 3 neighbors moving in came to ask what we did, and they called the same company to come do theirs. Then in September, another neighbor moved in and called the same company and was told it was too late in the year for bermuda, but that they could do it with fescue, and did.

 

[EddieWalker]

Bird,

I'm a littel confused on the different types of Bermuda grass varieties myself. Some are better for lawns, others for high traffic use and then there's the high growth, high protein stuff for livestock. My neighbor has a pasture in Tifton with a number, I forget the number, but he says it grows faster than any other variety. I looked at it and what realy caught my eye was how thick the runners were.

Back in California, bermuda was something we all fought to get rid off. All the garden stores sold stuff to kill bermuda and save the fiscue. I spent allot of money trying to win that battle, and never did. hahaha Now I'm spending even more money trying to get bermuda established!!!!

DmansPadge,

No snow, but lots of freezing. There are stories on the news about trees and branches falling from the ice build up, power out for thousands of people and traffic accidents from the ice. Here it's just pretty with the ice in the trees.

I prefer the warm and hot weather over this any time. I wonder if I'm too far North and should have moved closer to I-10 instead of I-20!!!

Rob,

Bahia is what grows here no matter what. I'm not a fan of it either and want to fight it from getting established. There's just nothing good about it.

I'd enjoy showing you around the place when you're in the area. Be sure to let me know when as I'm not always here, or if I am, I might have the gates locked up while working on something.

Just PM me with your regular email address and I'll send you a map with my phone number.

Mark,

You've read my mind. We're realy looking forward to putting the litte ten foot boat in there with the 5hp moter and pulling the kids around on an inner tube. It won't be very wild, but on a nice warm day, it should still be allot of fun!!!

Jim,

I've been to that website before when pricing grass seed. They have lots of good information, but there prices are on the high side. One thing that caught my eye was this;

"Risk of late plantings:
Bermuda seeds planted too late in the year, runs the risk of not producing and storing enough food reserves to last through the winter dormancy period. Basically the plants starve and then die because not enough growth occurs after planting to store the needed food in the root system. Dormancy is not a complete stopping of activity, so even when dormant the plant still needs nutrients and water to survive."

Which is pretty much exactly what I did. I knew it was a risk, but after reading that paragraph, I'm wondering if it was a big mistake on my part to plant when I did?

I'll find out in the spring time. hahaha

Did you all notice that log drag with the tires? Looked like a good way to smooth out a field for pretty cheap. The guy I bought my dumptruck from uses tires for drags like that because he says they fill up with dirt and do a great job of breaking down the high spots and filling in the low spots. I never made a tire drag because I want one that levels out the groudn better. The one in the picture looks like the way to go!!!!

I also have a few areas that I planted bermuda seed in several years ago that are very thick and lush. I go here with my loader to cut out areas to transplant. This is how my front yard is done, and parts of my front pasture. I can do this all summer long regardless of the heat, but I do have to water it every day for it to take hold. Once that happens, I can stop watering and it will continue to slowly spread.

Ron,

Love to see you and Betty again. Maybe this time it will be dryer for you and we can get your RV in here. Let me know when and we'll be looking for you.

As for the mud, what fun would it have been to stay on the safe and compacted roads? hahaha Unfortunatley, with my clearing efforts, I'm destroying allot of my roads that were very solid and easy to walk on. One of the main ones is so bad that we gave up trying to walk on it over the weekend and went out into the grass.

PM me if you need my phone number again.

Bird,

I built a spec home a few years ago on a sandy lot. Nothing but sand. When it was done, I decided to have it hydromulched. The cost was more than I'd expected at $2,000 for a quarter acre, but it did work. The sand doesn't hold any water, so it had to be watered twice a day for the first week, then once a day for almost a month. After that, I just watered it once a week when I mowed it until it sold.

Mixed in with the bermuda seed was centipede. The goal was to have a centepede lawn in three years. That's how long the hydromulch guy said it would take for it to take over the bermuda.

In the spring, I plan to put out centepede seed around the dam, along the waters edge. It's such a slow growing grasss, and its so extremly thick, that I shouldn't have to mow it very often. This would be really nice along the waters edge. Then in time, I'll try to get it to spread and establish itself over more and more of the dam.

I also prefer the shade of green of centepede over bermuda.

Thanks,
Eddie