Cub Cadet Hydrostatic Oil

[Yetii]

Has anyone found out a non OEM replacement for Cub Cadet Hydrostatic oil?
Reason being...as per the ruling Magnusson-Moss Act requires that OEM's provide the information about a maintenance items so after market products can be used as a replacements. The act states that they have to provided a suitable oil type (e.g. SAE, JASO, etc. type oil) or provided the oil free of charge or provide an FTC exemption letter stating that there are no other oils able to do the same job.
This is why automotive, atv, snowmobile, etc. manufacturers cannot dishonor warranty's if non OEM oils are used as a maintenance replacement item.
Has anyone contacted MTD or their dealers about this?
I centainly would like the oil free....

 

[Outlander1]

If you are looking for the non-synthetic stuff Case/IHC Hytran Plus is the same. Got that from my dealer after he contacted CC parts. Hytran and CC oil are made by the same company...Viscosity Oil Company. Odd they publish the spec's for the Hytran but not the CC stuff. Gee I wonder why? Maybe its that generous, customer friendly attitude that MTD displays with such regularity?

 

[JTKub]

Here's the MSDS on the CC "Drive System Plus" oil: http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/manuals/drivesystemfluidplus.pdf
It's made by shell/equillon. I'm going to try an email to MTD on this, but I'd bet it will go unanswered... we'll see!
G/luck
Joel

 

[ducati996]

You got information !! We should run this by Gsxr1100 for his
thoughts on this sheet and if it tells you anything

Oh calling Mr. Gsxr1100 I have a question regarding oil /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
(just kidding with you) I have no doubt he will understand if it means anything

Duc

 

[GreenQuality]

I was looking on shell web site looking fo shell code 53058 with no luck. did stumble on to a close match using sb mixture 100 and have the same zinc no 64742-54-7 and also the same plant name equiva services it showing a different code,but printed in the same year. 10-40 w syn blend Rolella,but not happy in till I find the same shell code 53058!

 

[JTKub]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I was looking on shell web site looking fo shell code 53058 with no luck. did stumble on to a close match.... )</font>

Yep, I did the same thing. Scoured all the sites associated with equilon and shell. Basically came up empty. The MSDS is pretty dry on details. Most oils offer up alittle more info, even on the MSDS. Some of the usefull info:

Pour point = -10degF
Viscosity = 9.4 CS @ 212degF
Flash Point = 390degF (COC)

G/luck
Joel

 

[JTKub]

Viscosity of 9.4 CS @ 212degF = a SAE30 oil! So much for my 40 or 50wt oil theory and not so calibrated sense of sight and touch /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif! Dang that stuff seems 'thicker' that that!
Check here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

G/luck
Joel

 

[GreenQuality]

Well HOLD your horses and stop the press! I e-mailed shell oil about this 53058 code.Iasked what weight is this oil! I got a answer he said that it is( 80w 90 ish) WELL i'm lost for words right now.IF I would like to post this e-mail That I got from shell oil for other to read! how do I do it?

 

[JTKub]

Man-o-man... The plot thickens, as dmes the oil!!

That's funny GQ, I just emailed Shell tonight in regards to getting a product data sheet on this oil. This does make some sense with thd pour point beilg so poor for a synthetic blend. An 80wt wouldjt pour so good at below zero! any idea when "CC Drive System Plus" first came out?? The MSDS qays 1999. I thought this stuff was newer than that /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.
Thanks!
Joel

 

[GreenQuality]

YOU know I've seen one other different data sheet buy a diff oil company.for this cub cadet system drive plus !I don't get it most hydro gear pumps use oils in the ball park 15w 50 0r 20w50 is what I have been useing for about 1 year 1/2 I have put 570 hr on this tranmission since i bought it new last year in march.buy the how can I show the e-mail i got from shell oil? my pump is a bdL-10 some say saurse danforse spelling is bad. made some pumps for cub cadet,what year did they start to use this oil I going to say 2001?

 

[JTKub]

I'm with you. I've NEVER heard of a hydro pump that runs on anything heavier than a 20w-50 motor oil! I think the older IH cubs had sauer-sunstrand/danforth pumps, the MTD cubs have peerless or hydro-gear as far as I know. Only way I know of to post an email is either cut/paste it into your post, or post it as a .pdf as you would a picture. Hopefully some other goo-roo's will chime in!
G/luck
Joel

 

[Boog]

Now someone correct me if I am wrong, but:
Most all hydraulic systems (this is what a hydrostatic transmssion is) use relativley low viscosity fluid (even the red hydraulic fluid in aircraft is low viscosity) I have a powershift 3020 Deere farm tractor and the 'Hygard' fluid in it is low viscosity. Now if "compatibility" (oil does not eat gaskets) is not a problem, ANY hydraulic fluid can be used in the CC hydrostatic tranny. Most manufacturers say only to use their fluids for sales purposes. But most of the time, any fluid will work (there are cases when theirs is best.) For example, if I buy a CC (which I very well might) I will look into using the Deere Hygard oil in it sine I have a bunch of it. Now I would do a complete drain of the CC stuff and replace it if I do this because sometimes 'mixing' different fluids, while generally doing no harm to the metals, will produce some sludge in the system. I have also seen replacement hydraulic fluids in 5 gallon buckets in auto parts stores (autozone) for much less than what manufacturers charge. I don't know what the Warranty on the CC's says with regard to fluid use, but other fluids should actually work fine.

 

[JTKub]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now someone correct me if I am wrong, but:
Most all hydraulic systems (this is what a hydrostatic transmssion is) use relativley low viscosity fluid (even the red hydraulic fluid in aircraft is low viscosity))</font>

Actually, all the newer hydrostatic LT/GT transaxles I know of use motor oil in the 10w-30 to 20w-50 range (peerless, tufftorq and hydro-gear). Hydraulic fluid is typcially a 20wt oil, dyed to whatever color the manufacturer wants, with hyd specific additives.
G/luck
Joel

 

[1olddawg]

This might be of interest. The hydro-gear service manual for the BDP-10/21L put out by Husqvarna page 11 says, "Typically, an engine oil with a minimum rating of 55 SUS at 210 deg F maximum operating temperature and an API classification of SH/CD is allowed". Since I use Castrol SYNTEC, 10w30 in my engine, I looked up the SUS and API specs and found every weight through 20w50 to meet all. This information can be found on the Castrol web sight. Jerry

 

[GreenQuality]

I did some research,the transaxle is made by cub, the pump is made by hydro gear., I had a problem my 2180 free wheeling on steep hills. replaced a valve,helped alittle, and was getting air in hydro.So i tried a different filter ,I now use only john deere transmission filter part#am39653c,the free wheeling stoped and now the cub can even stop on steep hill on the dime!I might try gl-5 75w90 syn gear oil in the transmission. which alot of the older tractor used,I found out you can put a sae weight on a transmission oil,but the norm is not rated as such. but likeI said before I e-maid shell with that code and they said if you where going to put a weight on that code it would be 80w or gear oil right! and no harm to run gear oil throught hydro pump!older tractor did it! even now when it is like 90 deg out side and I run the **** out of my 2180 everyday cutting grass for business green Quality lawn service

 

[JTKub]

I dunno GQ. I'm not saying it wont work, but I've never seen a hydraulic or hydrostatic pump that will pump an 80 or 90wt gear lube. It's fine for the diffs and gear cases, but I'm not sure about the pump. I'm thinking a small hydrostat will groan like a sunofagun and lift the internal PRV on 80/90wt.
G/luck
Joel

 

[MrWiggles2]

GC, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't put gear lube in a hydrostatic pump. Its way too thick. Use only what is recommended if in fact you even have to change the fluid. You replace a filter, you're only losing about a quart, there isn't any need to change the whole thing. The fluid is synthetic and isn't breaking down, or getting contaminated with hydrocarbons as in an ICE. You've got your business to look out for too, so I'd go the safe route. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MrWiggles2]

We need Gamble to confirm, he'll set us straight. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[GreenQuality]

NO way would I do that! I'm happy with the 20w 50 syn that i have in there now! and the john deere filter, buy the way part no# jd am-39653c amazing filter and great find! still the??? remains about shell code 53058 it would be a 80 wt,is the answer that I got,and also e-mailed a reply to shell about what it is used for?

 

[GreenQuality]

OK not Happy but to state the sad fact,I got e-mail from shell,(from GregoryRaley@ shell .com("UNfortunately, There is no alternate prouduct That I'm aware of.")I give up!looking,but did find on mobil1 syn atf oil,That it did meet and past the sun-strand piston pump test! if it is anything close to the hydro gear piston pump,don't know but a lot of cubs used the sunstrand piston pump!any info on how hydro gear pumps are different from sunstrand?