Culvert Redux
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mikim
Veteran Member
This was the 3rd and last hat that the mower "ate". I had an 8N at the time and now that I have my TC45 I find I need to trim and retrim those limbs higher. If my head had been in the hat - my wife would be a rich woman now. An improvement I shouldn't suggest to her./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif I don't doubt that it might be a california fashion trend. I read an article in a car magazine once that took a country wide survey on what people drove and why - but they eliminated California "because those crazies will drive anything just to be different" /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I've actually thought about buying a hard hat for head protection against those limbs - but doubt it would fare even as well as a cowboy hat in the mower.
When I bought my new mower I made sure I got the chains. My old one didn't have any and I don't know how many times I had a rock go zingin' past me on the seat. I had expanded metal wrapped on the 8N's motor to keep it from getting hit by 'em. Just dumb luck I never got hit.
mike
When I bought my new mower I made sure I got the chains. My old one didn't have any and I don't know how many times I had a rock go zingin' past me on the seat. I had expanded metal wrapped on the 8N's motor to keep it from getting hit by 'em. Just dumb luck I never got hit.
mike
Bird
Rest in Peace
<font color=blue>I put a log about 2ft.X 5" under the tractor and out the front for about 50 Ft. Heard the mower hit and saw the log come flying out the front under the loader bucket</font color=blue>
Von, that's almost the same thing that happened to me with the B7100 and that's what gave me the incentive to make some chain guards. I certainly won't say it can't happen even with the chain guards, but so far it never has.
Bird
Von, that's almost the same thing that happened to me with the B7100 and that's what gave me the incentive to make some chain guards. I certainly won't say it can't happen even with the chain guards, but so far it never has.
Bird
StoneHeartFarm
Veteran Member
Hey bird!
Is there a thread on here about makin chain guards? If not, maybe we should start one?
SHF
Is there a thread on here about makin chain guards? If not, maybe we should start one?
SHF
Bird
Rest in Peace
SHF, it's been discussed a bit, but I don't even remember just where (since some of us tend to get a bit off topic at times). Of course, I'd never do that./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I definitely want chain guards, but the darned things are expensive, so since I have more time than money, I just made my own for the 4' brush hog when I had the B7100; they worked just fine, but I didn't like the design, so I did the ones a little differently for the 5' brush hog I have now. They're better, but I think if I ever do another one, it'll be even better; I'll make some more slight changes in design.
Bird
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Harv
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Well, the rainy season should be here in another month or two, so I decided it was time to finish this project. As you may or may not recall, my culvert #3 was a washout, literally. I underestimated the resolve with which flowing water will seek out any gaps around the inlets, and as a result lost most of the fill between and around my pipes. I have since replaced the fill, but hadn't fixed the original problem.
A couple of weeks ago, after an hour or so of carefully arranging rocks around the culvert face, I was not satisfied that I had improved the situation. So the following morning, I took the easy way out and picked up a few sacks of redi-mix and had at it again.
I dug out around the uphill ends of the pipes, exposing the last 4 or 5 inches. Then I just grabbed a piece of plywood scrap about the right size and slapped it up against the openings. Using a plastic garbage bag as my release agent, I just staked the board in place and leaned some heavy rocks against it for support. Then it was just a matter of mixing, pouring and rodding. The kids, of course, added the final touches. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
This last weekend I saw the results, which, although probably adequate, point out the value of measuring tools and levels and such. I did it all by eyeball, forgetting that I have a lousy eye. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
The attached pictures tell the story.
A couple of weeks ago, after an hour or so of carefully arranging rocks around the culvert face, I was not satisfied that I had improved the situation. So the following morning, I took the easy way out and picked up a few sacks of redi-mix and had at it again.
I dug out around the uphill ends of the pipes, exposing the last 4 or 5 inches. Then I just grabbed a piece of plywood scrap about the right size and slapped it up against the openings. Using a plastic garbage bag as my release agent, I just staked the board in place and leaned some heavy rocks against it for support. Then it was just a matter of mixing, pouring and rodding. The kids, of course, added the final touches. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
This last weekend I saw the results, which, although probably adequate, point out the value of measuring tools and levels and such. I did it all by eyeball, forgetting that I have a lousy eye. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
The attached pictures tell the story.
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Bird
Rest in Peace
Looks pretty good to me, Harv. The only thing I wonder about is the fact that the bottom of the culverts appears to be few inches above the bottom of the ditch, so I suppose you're going to be left with a puddle there. Will it soak in or dry up pretty quickly?
Bird
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Harv
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<font color=blue>I wonder about is the fact that the bottom of the culverts appears to be few inches above the bottom of the ditch</font color=blue>
Nothing wrong with your eyballs, Bird. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
That last picture shows how it looked right after I peeled away the form. I had deliberately dug out below the pipes to make sure the concrete extended below the creekbed level. The attached picture shows how it looks now, after I filled in and around with rocks and gravel.
I never really thought about the dynamics of water flow in a creek and the associated erosion, but now that I am thinking about it, I'm hoping the way I filled in the depression will discourage erosion under the concrete face. My intuition (solid as gossamer) tells me that the remaining pockets between the bottom rocks and gravel will get silted in, and the creek will establish its new bed at the level of the pipes.
Too bad this creek only runs when the neighbor's pond overflows. As dry as that pond is now, it could be many months before we get to see what happens. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
Nothing wrong with your eyballs, Bird. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
That last picture shows how it looked right after I peeled away the form. I had deliberately dug out below the pipes to make sure the concrete extended below the creekbed level. The attached picture shows how it looks now, after I filled in and around with rocks and gravel.
I never really thought about the dynamics of water flow in a creek and the associated erosion, but now that I am thinking about it, I'm hoping the way I filled in the depression will discourage erosion under the concrete face. My intuition (solid as gossamer) tells me that the remaining pockets between the bottom rocks and gravel will get silted in, and the creek will establish its new bed at the level of the pipes.
Too bad this creek only runs when the neighbor's pond overflows. As dry as that pond is now, it could be many months before we get to see what happens. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
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glennmac
Veteran Member
In Harv's original culvert thread, he and I were building our culverts at the same time. I gave detail on mine in that thread, but never documented the ultimate failure.
Mine was a double culvert--two 10' long, 30" diameter plastic pipes in a 4' deep, 6' wide stream bed. I used 12 tons of limestone crush on top. In the first rain where the water came over the banks, half of the gravel and one of the pipes washed away. I repaired it with another 5 tons of limestone. The second big rain caused "blowholes" in the limestone cover. Before I repaired that, a really big gullywasher washed away everything, including the two pipes, which are still buried in silt about 1/4 mile downstream.
I concluded that a culvert bridge would not work unless (1) the entire culvert bridge was embedded in a matrix of concrete, or (2) the culverts were so large in cross section that they could handle any volume of water. I decided option 1 was too costly and that option 2 would require a humongous culvert that protruded several feet above bank level (ie, a 6' diameter culvert, which would require a steel or concrete pipe instead of the plastic).
Last month I built a wooden bridge on concrete foundations, the details of which I have yet to document here.
Harv, I hope your concrete facing does the trick, but I suspect that if water goes over the top, it will still wash out the gravel behind the facing.
Mine was a double culvert--two 10' long, 30" diameter plastic pipes in a 4' deep, 6' wide stream bed. I used 12 tons of limestone crush on top. In the first rain where the water came over the banks, half of the gravel and one of the pipes washed away. I repaired it with another 5 tons of limestone. The second big rain caused "blowholes" in the limestone cover. Before I repaired that, a really big gullywasher washed away everything, including the two pipes, which are still buried in silt about 1/4 mile downstream.
I concluded that a culvert bridge would not work unless (1) the entire culvert bridge was embedded in a matrix of concrete, or (2) the culverts were so large in cross section that they could handle any volume of water. I decided option 1 was too costly and that option 2 would require a humongous culvert that protruded several feet above bank level (ie, a 6' diameter culvert, which would require a steel or concrete pipe instead of the plastic).
Last month I built a wooden bridge on concrete foundations, the details of which I have yet to document here.
Harv, I hope your concrete facing does the trick, but I suspect that if water goes over the top, it will still wash out the gravel behind the facing.
Bird
Rest in Peace
You say I just didn't have enough faith in you, Harv?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I should have known you didn't leave it like it was in the first picture.
Bird
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Harv
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<font color=blue>I suspect that if water goes over the top, it will still wash out the gravel behind the facing.</font color=blue>
I have no doubts you are right, oh battle weary culvert man. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
Actually, I thank you for reminding me, Glenn -- the theory is that every culvert should be designed with a "Plan B" for the water path 'cuz sooner or later they all overflow. The generally accepted method for this is to provide the equivalent of a swale which runs more or less parallel with the culvert pipes. With careful planning, the swale should catch the excess runoff, possibly at the expense of a little road damage, but save the culvert from washing away.
I have made a half-hearted attempt to achieve Plan B, but I should probably take a more serious look at this next time I'm up at the property.
BTW -- the attached picture shows another part of my creek I have yet to deal with. The model (my 9-year old daughter) is there to show the scale of the bridge. I bet this more closely approximates your creek situation. Unfortunately, my budget doesn't seem to approximate yours. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif
I have no doubts you are right, oh battle weary culvert man. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
Actually, I thank you for reminding me, Glenn -- the theory is that every culvert should be designed with a "Plan B" for the water path 'cuz sooner or later they all overflow. The generally accepted method for this is to provide the equivalent of a swale which runs more or less parallel with the culvert pipes. With careful planning, the swale should catch the excess runoff, possibly at the expense of a little road damage, but save the culvert from washing away.
I have made a half-hearted attempt to achieve Plan B, but I should probably take a more serious look at this next time I'm up at the property.
BTW -- the attached picture shows another part of my creek I have yet to deal with. The model (my 9-year old daughter) is there to show the scale of the bridge. I bet this more closely approximates your creek situation. Unfortunately, my budget doesn't seem to approximate yours. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif
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Gatorboy
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I would love to see a picture of your bridge. I too need to build a bridge crossing a stream. I have an estimate from a local guy of $38,000.
The quick synopsis is:
He would build two concrete abutments (sp?) on each side of the stream, and use 3 steel I-beams to lay across. Thus, never touching the stream. Then, perpendicular to the I-Beams would be many 8x8 wood beams. The bridge I need to build would be approximately 35 foot long. The bridge needs to be strong enough to allow cement and fire trucks to cross.
I would like to find a cheaper -- yet viable solution if possible.
Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland
The quick synopsis is:
He would build two concrete abutments (sp?) on each side of the stream, and use 3 steel I-beams to lay across. Thus, never touching the stream. Then, perpendicular to the I-Beams would be many 8x8 wood beams. The bridge I need to build would be approximately 35 foot long. The bridge needs to be strong enough to allow cement and fire trucks to cross.
I would like to find a cheaper -- yet viable solution if possible.
Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland
glennmac
Veteran Member
Harv, your picture is irrefutable evidence that you copied my secret wooden bridge design!
Gatorboy, my bridge is 20' long and 12' wide, but only spans a 6'-8' gap. It cost $2k. I'll publish details tomorrow in another thread. I could have done it for far less cost with telephone poles, had I been able to find any used ones. The telephone company here will give them away, but they didnt have any at the moment. And even if they have used ones, you dont want to take ones in bad shape.
How much of a gap do you have to span? How long are the proposed I beams? Telephone poles come in 5 different diameters in lengths at least up to 40'. If that's long enough to span your gap, I think 6 telephone poles might equal three I beams.
Gatorboy, my bridge is 20' long and 12' wide, but only spans a 6'-8' gap. It cost $2k. I'll publish details tomorrow in another thread. I could have done it for far less cost with telephone poles, had I been able to find any used ones. The telephone company here will give them away, but they didnt have any at the moment. And even if they have used ones, you dont want to take ones in bad shape.
How much of a gap do you have to span? How long are the proposed I beams? Telephone poles come in 5 different diameters in lengths at least up to 40'. If that's long enough to span your gap, I think 6 telephone poles might equal three I beams.
Von
Veteran Member, Advertiser
Gatorboy,
You might find some old beams from one of the many highway bridges that are being replaced. You would have to pay to have them trucked in and set in place. But you might get them for next to nothing if they are just going to scrap them out.
You might find some old beams from one of the many highway bridges that are being replaced. You would have to pay to have them trucked in and set in place. But you might get them for next to nothing if they are just going to scrap them out.
scruffy
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a used rr flatcar can be picked up rather cheaply. It will support the fire trucks etc.
glennmac
Veteran Member
<font color=blue>picked up rather cheaply</font color=blue>
Yeah, about $10,000 per day for the necessary monster crane.
Yeah, about $10,000 per day for the necessary monster crane.
scruffy
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Glenn, last one I was involved in putting in, we didn't use a crane, just a D-8 CAT, took about 3 or 4 hours....but whatever.
Gatorboy
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The actual gap is about 15-18 feet wide. The telephone pole idea has given me new hope that a much cheaper alternative is out there. Looking forward to seeing the details of your project.
Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland
Regards,
Dave "Gatorboy" Hoffmann
Fallston, Maryland
