Cutting trees after Isabel

[elmerinva]

Isabel blew a number of poplars and oaks on my property so that they are tilted and leaning on ajacent trees. The root ball is intact so when I tried to cut a notch and back cut, the tree just slammed down on the chain saw bar. I managed to free the chain saw by wrapping a chain around the tree and pulling it free and down with my tractor.

So my next plan is to cut a notch on the up side of a tilted tree, with one cut of the notch parallel to the ground, and the other vertical. Then on the down side, make a matching cut with the cut in line with the cut parallel to the ground on the other side but not touching so that the whole thing is now held by a thin slab. By cutting the slab from the top side, the tree should slide along the cut parallel to the ground, and come gracefully down.

My wife thinks I'm crazy to try this, but the tree cutters in the neighborhood are gouging everyone.
They want thousands of dollars to cut trees, and I can't afford them nor do I want to encourage their greed.
Any comments or better ways to do this?
Maybe this should be in the safety forum.

 

[Henro]

As you now those trees can act in ways that one cannot always predict...

Would there be any chance of hooking a chain around the root ball where it is still stuck in the ground and pulling it out with the tractor, letting the tree fall to the ground that way?

How big are those trees?

Your idea may work, but I wild be very afraid of what way the tree may spring [if it does at all] when you are standing beside it making that final cut, expecting it to just slide peacefully to the ground.

The image of a fly swatter keeps popping into my mind... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

You just never know for sure until after the fact.

Be careful...hopefully you will get some good advice here from those more experience in this area... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[GregJ]

One thing that I have done that has worked for me is to tie off the leaning tree as high as possible and try to pull it away from the standing tree so it can fall. I take something fairly heavy like a trailer ball or a galvanized pipe elbow and tie it to some 1/4 poly rope. Then I throw it over a limb as high on the tree as possible. Then lower the weight to the ground and tie off the 1/4 inch line to some large rope or cable. Then you can pull up and tie off the larger rope up high on the tree. This gives a lot more leverage so you can pull at a right angle against the tree that is holding it up. This is all, of course, assuming you have the room to do all this. Sometime it the middle of the woods this is impossible. Actually, I use ropes on almost all the trees I drop, just so I can make sure they go right where I want them to. If you use rope though, be carefull you don't pull too hard because if they break you have a nasty sling shot coming at ya.

Greg

 

[RonR]

I helped fell some old/mostly dead pine and cedar trees a few years back at our church.

One guy "borrowed" a huge dump truck from his truck sales lot. We'd back the truck end gate up to the trunk, someone would stand on the tailgate and hook a heavy chain up as high as we could reach. He'd use the truck to pull the tree over. Then we could safely stand on the ground and cut it into chunks. The only risk seemed to be if the trunk fell on the truck, but it was old and used, so no harm, no foul.

These trees were 50-60 ft tall, best I can guess.

Best wishes.

Ron

 

[Bob_In_MN]

I'm with Henro on this one.

I'm not a professional trimmer by any means, but used to spend 9-10 weekends per year cutting wood with my Dad. I did this for 20 years.

In my opinion, a tree very rarely does exactly what you think it will do. There's always a force being applied that you don't see.

I was once hit in the back of the legs just below the knees by a branch from a tree that rolled unexpectedly. The force was great enough to make me and a running chainsaw do a complete circle in the air. Fortunately no injuries.

So--I don't have any techinical advice other than be careful--it only takes a fraction of a second for things to get real ugly.

Good Luck

Bob

 

[elmerinva]

Thanks all for the replies. The image of a fly swatter is good--I thought myself more like a bug under a boot.

The idea of a line is one I considered but the lean is only 20 deg from vertical and the nearest limb is about 40 ft up.

I can't get a heavy vehicle into the area since these trees circle the leach field of my septic system.

I may just chicken out and see what next Spring looks like. Maybe an ice storm will clear some of this out.

 

[WCarlson]

I lost 60 trees a couple years ago in a freak storm with 100 knot winds. A few were uprooted but most were broken off 20 to 40 feet up and hung on other trees. I only lost 6 trees in Isabel's aftermath. Arborists here were getting $500 a tree to just drop them. I did them all myself without injury or additional damage. That may not make me an expert, but at least I have a lot of experience.
I wouldn't try it the way you propose. What you describe is a reversed Humbolt notch, it won't go gracefully and you will have no control over the fall. My preference would be to cut the leaner free using a rope saw or a gasoline pole saw (I have an Echo with two extensions that allows me to cut a 12 inch branch 22 feet up) then when the leaner is free and you can control the fall put a heavy line (I use 3/4 inch nylon) to the highest point you can get to with a throw line. I recommend attaching the line with a running bowline then with appropriate blocks fairlead your line to tension the tree in the desired direction of fall with either a heavy duty come along or your tractor. Then use either a regular or a Humbolt notch on the downside of the leaner to drop. The key is to ensure that you have control of the tree and the drop direction and to take your time. Anticipate the worst that can happen, it usally does. If you need/want additional data on sources for the tools or techniques, send me a personal e-mail.
Good luck and be safe.
Bill

 

[GregJ]

Elmer,
Could you post a picture of this. We might be able to come up with a better solution if we could see what this looks like. I have also opted sometimes to let Mother Nature run it's course on some nasty snags in my woods. The only problem with leaving a tree is that it's going to come down some time and it's a lot nicer to know when it's coming down and not have it come down unannounced. I've seen that happen too and it's every bit as scary. One day at our place, not a breath of wind and all of a sudden a 2 ton alder drops across our road. We were lucky nobody was in the area.

Greg

 

[kensfarm]

A leaning tree requires additional caution when cutting.. the log might push/jump back over the stump from the limbs pushing against the standing tree or sometimes even spin and roll to one side.

On a leaning tree... "most times" a single cut on the upside.. will get squeezed.. but making a cut on the downside is more awkward.. and depending on the rootball(it sometimes has a tendency of pulling back to an upright position).. the underside cut might squeeze up too.

Every situation is different.. if the tree & rootball are of managable size.. I sometimes would just use the FEL to finish digging up the rootball.. this will sometimes let the tree fall the rest of the way.. def. safer.

On leaning trees.. instead of a horizontal cut on either the upside or downside.. I sometimes use a vertical cut.. I start the cut on the upper part of the upside in a horizontal position.. plant the teeth and rotate the cut to end in a vertical position. Now this leaves the section of the log closest to you.. uncut.. I then will alternate cutting from the upside & downside of the uncut section to see which side starts to squeeze.

It's dangerous work.. please be safe.. and keep observers away from the area.

 

[frank_f15]

u want to be real careful here, trees that are leaning have all kinds of twist in them and they may not fall where u think they wiil, u got the use of a block and tackle? keeps u out of the way.

 

[lippy]

here in florida,some homeowners insurance cover this problem with trees,have you checked into this. paying a deductable is cheaper and safer than a hospital bill.

 

[MossRoad]

Leaners are sooo dangerous. The safest way is to use heavy equipment to pull it down then cut it up on the ground. I've pulled a few leaners and hangers down with my 4wd pickup. I have a 100' length of 5/8 inch cable that I got from a wrecker company fairly cheap. I use twine on a ball to throw it up and over, then use the twine to pull up a rope. Then I use the rope to pull up a noose made of chain attached to the end of the cable. It cinches around the trunk. The higher up the tree the better the lever you create to pry the tree out. I hook it to the trailer hitch of my truck and pull it down. If anything, it usually clears it from any snags and comes down by its own weight. The long cable keeps me away from the tree, no matter which way it ends up falling. With a cable, you have to be aware of possible snaps that could send the cable back at you, so follow the same practice that you would use if using a winch. I've found that if I go more perpendicular to the tree, it tends to work better than being in a straight line with it. If it is too big, you may have to get a larger vehicle like a dozer to pull it down.

 

[elmerinva]

All,
Thanks for all the advice and experience. After helping a neighbor cut off an oak resting on his transformer box, I gained new respect for the action a root ball will take after release.

I took another look at the trees: all poplars except one oak, each about 15 to 25 inches in diameter, about 50-60 ft high with the first branches starting at about 40 feet. Each has its top hung up in another one or two trees. Attaching a line/cable seems the safest way to control the fall using my 4x4 pickup and a tackle to move the tree away from the septic leach field. Problem will be to attach the line/chain at a point sufficiently high to get the leverage to pull the tree free. MossRoad, you may have to help me figure out how a noose chain can hold up high enough without slipping on a nearly vertical tree.

GregJ, I can't submit an image since I have no way to scan it.

WCarlson, I will do a search on the Humboldt notch (didn't know it had a name). If I can't find it, I may have to ask for your help. By the way, my wife grew up in the Finger Lakes region near Elmira, a little town called Odessa. Beautiful country, but the winters are fierce.

Again, thanks to all for the help.

 

[ScottAR]

www.abortistsite.com

Ask the ones who do it for a living. Couple of noodlheads but mostly straight shooters.

 

[GregJ]

Elmer,
For what it's worth, I have thought of a couple of things. First of all, HD sells a 3/4 poly line on a 200ft spool for about $30 and it is really quite good line. For poly line, it's very soft, lightweight and doesn't tangle. I want at least a 200 ft line when I pull trees over. I remember one time in my "youth" I pulled over a tree that I estimated to be 70ft. with a 100ft. line. I didn't estimate too good and it turned out my line was about 8 feet short. I drove around in a pickup truck with a nice v-shaped dent in the top of the cab for many years after that. I'll never forget the feeling of looking back in my rear view mirror and realizing that I was a little short on rope and I wasn't going to be able to outrun that tree. Since then, I like to watch the trees drop from a long, long ways away.
Secondly, I just dropped a tree a few weekends ago that snagged in another tree. The lowest limb was way up there. However there was a knot on the side of the tree and it was leaning at just enough angle I was able to throw the light line over the knot. I lowered the weight to the ground, then tied a large, loose bowline with the 3/4 poly around the tree and tied the light line to the bowline. I walked as far from the tree as I could, gently keeping the light line snug to get as big of an angle as possible. Then gingerly pulled the bowline up the tree about 30feet. Then I put tension on the 3/4 line and was able to pull the tree out of the snag. With a little patience, you really don't need a limb if there's a burl or knot on the high side of the lean. Just thought I'd share. Good luck and make sure your cable or rope is longer than the drop zone....... A lot longer.....Words of experience.

Greg

 

[Junkman]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( www.abortistsite.com

Ask the ones who do it for a living. Couple of noodlheads but mostly straight shooters. )</font>

try this link.....it works

This story is enough encouragement for me to think twice before tackling those trees.....

read the details here.......

 

[Egon]

would you be able to use a fishing rod with a heavy sinker and throw the line thru branches higher up and then pull a heavier line through and so on till you get to the chain or cable?

Egon

 

[elmerinva]

GregJ, Thanks for the technique and poly rope tips on getting a line on the tree. The more I read about how professionals get hurt doing this kind of thing, I may hold off and see how it looks after the leaves are down and can see more clearly what's going on.

Egon, Good idea about the fishing line and weight. Might be pretty tricky though with my spin rod--too light--6 lb line though.

Junkman,The Aborist site is great. Good info and provides a view from guys who do this for a living. They show a lot of respect for the hurt a tree can do you.

My wife continues to tell I'm crazy to even consider doing this. But I've done dumber things.

Thanks again to all.

 

[GaryM]

Amateur Radio operators, like me, use a bow and fisihing arrow to get lines through trees to string antennas. Would work for getting a line over a branch in order to haul up a rope or chain.

 

[GregJ]

Gary,
That's a great idea. Even if the fising line is too small to pull up the 3/4 poly or chain, you could at least pull up some 1/4 poly and then pull the 3/4 with the 1/4. I'll remember that one.

Thanks,
Greg