Damaged block installing block heater L5240

[LittleBill21]

The block is the problem, head was ok unless I missed something,

if the shop is still up for it:

That's where I am right now. I was quoted $400 for the one cylinder to be welded, bored and sleeved to factory diameter from a shop 30 minutes from where I work.

I would still go for it- If it's a good shop they will tell you after looking at it whether it is ok for the previously quoted procedure. Here's hoping for the $ 400 fix

I am also wondering where in its stroke the piston was when the hole was drilled, you may still need to buy a new piston if it was drilled to.

yea i meant block sorry.

 

[TomSeller]

Correct me if my math is fuzzy. .

This would be a decision I would leave in the diesel shop's hands. This is what can happen with a improperly sized sleeve

 

[LittleBill21]

This would be a decision I would leave in the diesel shop's hands. This is what can happen with a improperly sized sleeve

it work itself loose?

 

[TomSeller]

it work itself loose?

I am not sure since the rebuild was done by the previous owner. I bought the tractor used for a prayer so no big deal. After the rebuild I had about what it was worth into it. That picture was from #1 cylinder, #2 was snug at best, almost could push the liner out by hand and #3 was fairly tight. Redid all three cylinders about 5 years ago and pressed new liners in solid. No issues to date, runs like a new tractor. (Perkins engine)

The guy I bought the tractor from said, and had paperwork from, a reputable diesel shop who "did the rebuild". But after calling the shop subsequent to the sleeve failing I found out they only did a repair to a broken flange bolt mount. The guy I bought it from must have done the liner work. The liner gave away and about 10% of it ended up crunched on top of the piston and the rest below. I figured it was "working" (moving) with each stroke and fatigued. The head and block checked out after a magneflux as okay. So properly relining a cylinder should be done by qualified professionals in my book.

 

[Ehanson]

I had two things to take care of tonight.

1). Install a block heater.

2) replace the rubber suction hose that connects to the hydraulic pump. It's cracked and sucking air, causing power steering problems.

Instructions on the block heater call for removing the hydraulic pump to access the frost plug closest to the flywheel. No problem. Area is very tight with the remaining hydraulic lines (steel) surrounding the area of the frost plug. I had the loader removed, but the quick connects were also in my way.

I then took a long Phillips screwdriver and tapped against the edge of the frost plug. It went in maybe 1/8" and stopped. Took my cordless drill and drilled a hole to see if I could pry it off with a pole barn nail or something. Drilled a couple more holes. Finally got the frost plug to spin and was able to grab it with some needle nose pliers. Looked and saw what I had done and freaked out for a minute. The water jacket was maybe 5/16 deep and there is metal right there!

Freak out time over, I collected my thoughts and took a small nail and felt around in the small holes I had drilled.. They are maybe 1/8" deep, 3 of them. Around 5/32" in diameter. No way I could have damaged Anything I tell myself. Block is likely very thick.

Cleaned up the block, installed block heater, re-assembled hydraulic pump, filled with coolant. No leaks. Good deal.

Start up the tractor. Power steering is acting right. Then I notice oil coming out of the exhaust. Rev it up a little, more oil. Shut it down, Freak out again and check the engine oil. $&@k!. Oil is white. Sick to my stomach. 9:30 at night, call dad to explain the symptoms. "Not good". He says.

I'm at a loss for words now. I'll take everything back apart tomorrow and get the exact depths with my caliper. Maybe the only saving grace may be that that the holes are only down in area just below the cylinder sleeve. Seems like it would not have drilled so easily. I couldn't put much pressure on the drill because of everything in my way.

Just sickening...

Any suggestions on how or if there is a fix for this would be greatly appreciated. Maybe it could be accessed from the inside by removing the crank? Does anyone know on this engine what is directly behind the 1st frost plug on the right side?

Luckily I still have my L3400, so I'm not without a tractor.

Can you get ahold of some Belzona? It is super hard material that I have used to repair a broken
deck surface of a jointer, I was able to get some as our shop has used it in some cylinder block repairs.
Belzona 1111 (Super Metal)

 

[IH3444]

Liners are an interference fit. The cylinder is bored under size, block heated in oven, cylinder bore expands to outer diameter shrunk sleeve measurement. Sleeve is frozen in liquid nitrogen to shrink it. Quickly pressed into cylinder bore. Whole mass then equalizes to room temperature, and then the sleeve is locked into block. Valve seat are shrunk fit into the cylinder head in this manner also.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

The question I have is, "who is going to disassemble the engine before machining, and reassemble the engine after." I do not think it is possible to machine that one whole with out getting metal through out the rest of the engine. So it is going to have to come apart, and washed. If he is going to reuse the old bearing, piston and rings, I would want to be talking it a part. If the machine shop is doing it, I would be very surprised he gets out of there for just $400. Re-using old parts is tricky. I think the OP could do it. Machine shops are not used to doing it. A shop that takes work regularly to a machine shop is going to have a different experience than a guy that takes an engine there, maybe twice in his life time.

 

[Adiredneck]

The question I have is, "who is going to disassemble the engine before machining, and reassemble the engine after." I do not think it is possible to machine that one whole with out getting metal through out the rest of the engine. So it is going to have to come apart, and washed. If he is going to reuse the old bearing, piston and rings, I would want to be talking it a part. If the machine shop is doing it, I would be very surprised he gets out of there for just $400. Re-using old parts is tricky. I think the OP could do it. Machine shops are not used to doing it. A shop that takes work regularly to a machine shop is going to have a different experience than a guy that takes an engine there, maybe twice in his life time.

I am going to disassemble and bring them the bare block. Before I tear it down any further though, I am going to bring it to them the way it is to get their opinion. If they say yes, we can repair it, then I will give them a deposit to order the liner. I will continue to break it down and return to them for the work.

If they can't repair, then I will bring it home and park it in the garage while I search for a replacement. Depending on cost, either a reman or new. I have requested quotes from a few places already. One a few weeks ago ($6200 for a reman including shipping), and another just this morning. My block is worth nothing as a core, so I might as well keep it for the $200 or so they might give me for the crank assembly.

She will be running by the end of April, one way or another. This is just a bump in the road.

 

[valkyrie9901]

I can't believe that they could not ( if there was access from the outside in) heat the cast up in that area as low as it is in the cylinder and plug weld it. It is below the top of the compression stroke an could be re-bored to take care of any distortions. Just curious.........JB.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Liners are an interference fit. The cylinder is bored under size, block heated in oven, cylinder bore expands to outer diameter shrunk sleeve measurement. Sleeve is frozen in liquid nitrogen to shrink it. Quickly pressed into cylinder bore. Whole mass then equalizes to room temperature, and then the sleeve is locked into block. Valve seat are shrunk fit into the cylinder head in this manner also.

My concern is if the block is as thin as it is if the liner expands to much or to fast it will crack the block between the cylinders. If it was me, a $1,000 compared to $6,800+ I would take the $1,000. I am figuring a grand after gaskets and the like.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I am going to disassemble and bring them the bare block. Before I tear it down any further though, I am going to bring it to them the way it is to get their opinion. If they say yes, we can repair it, then I will give them a deposit to order the liner. I will continue to break it down and return to them for the work.

If they can't repair, then I will bring it home and park it in the garage while I search for a replacement. Depending on cost, either a reman or new. I have requested quotes from a few places already. One a few weeks ago ($6200 for a reman including shipping), and another just this morning. My block is worth nothing as a core, so I might as well keep it for the $200 or so they might give me for the crank assembly.

She will be running by the end of April, one way or another. This is just a bump in the road.

Sounds like you have it figured out. When you pull it apart this is where you need to mark everything! I have a set set of letter and number stamps for the bearing caps and rods. You can if your careful pull it a part and reuse everything. The only question I would have and some else here maybe able to chime in would be leaving in or replacing the cam bearings. Some cleaning methods can pit the cam bearing. Then if you put new in running with the old cam?

 

[countrybumpkin]

If i missed it sorry , but if that block is not repairable can you not just buy a new bare block? I would think it has to be cheaper than a complete remain ? If you do fix that block i would defiantly have new cam bearings installed, wont be a issue running the original cam.

 

[Adiredneck]

Yes. A new block is around $3200.00.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

If i missed it sorry , but if that block is not repairable can you not just buy a new bare block? I would think it has to be cheaper than a complete remain ? If you do fix that block i would defiantly have new cam bearings installed, wont be a issue running the original cam.

your going to want to have the machine shop install the new cam bearings, I can go either way on having them install, the freeze plugs...

 

[ccsial]

I would think if you sleeve it you still have to repair the hole to keep coolant from seeping.

 

[TomSeller]

your going to want to have the machine shop install the new cam bearings, I can go either way on having them install, the freeze plugs...

AND one block heater in place of a freeze plug,

I would think if you sleeve it you still have to repair the hole to keep coolant from seeping.

I think you are correct

 

[countrybumpkin]

He said several posts back that they were going to weld up the holes, then machine the block and install the sleeve.

 

[Adiredneck]

Appointment made with the machine shop for inspection tomorrow night. Fingers crossed.. I have to take it back off the engine stand tonight and strap her down real good in the back of the truck.

 

[rbargeron]

I hadn't seen post #211 showing the holes above the piston. I'm usually an optimist about mechanical repairs but this time I really question whether it's worthwhile. With the thin walls there's too much risk. The longevity of the repair will always nag this engine. It's a tough pill, but replacing the block will restore your confidence in the full service life and lasting value of this quite young L5240.

 

[The Fred]

Mig weld the holes, Bore close on any old Bridgeport mill then finish hone that cylinder......DONE!

I've bored old Volvo engines on my mill with great success. These were clunkers with many miles on them.

Practice mig welding on some old brake discs then have at it.

Look at them laughing at the Fred