Deadheaded my pump

[TheSheriff]

I'm new to tractors, but from what I have read, a deadheaded pump, especially under load or higher RPM's, is supposed to be catastrophic, right? I have a 2010 Jinma 284. Is there some new safety feature on this model?

Here's what happened. I was running the BH (Which is driven by the engine pump) at 1700 RPM and was doing my switch seat routine to reposition the tractor. I have a Ranch Hand full-flow kit and my foot inadvertently hit the QD.

The engine died instantly and I stress instantly. There was no noise, change in RPM, pop... nothing. Just instant off.

Once I figured out what I had done and connected the QD, I checked the pump expecting to find oil dripping. The pump looked fine. I started the engine and watched the pump... still nothing unusual.

I ran the BH for about 20 minutes and noticed nothing unusual with one exception. The boom raise seemed to lug the engine a bit more than normal, but even this went away after several minutes. The oil was already at working temp so that wasn't the reason.

I can't help but think my optimism is misguided. Anything I should be checking? Oh. and I zip tied my QD!!

Thanks, Brad

 

[Rich Waugh]

Well yeah, you deadheaded the pump but the thing held well enough to kill the engine. Lucky. If everything is still working you're okay, I should think. Good idea to secure the QD's.

Rich

 

[Transit]

Keep an eye on the engine oil level. You may not have blown the pump itself but the pump shaft seal may leak hydraulic oil into the engine and you will see the increased oil on the dip stick. QC's are noted for deadheading, you should have a pressure relief valve as close to the pump as possible to limit the oil pressure. Sometimes the relief valve is built into the FEL controls.

 

[Dan W]

I think you are perfectly fine. The engine quit which is a good thing, but if all worked well after re-start, you are good to work the machine. You have to wonder what the pump pressure relief valve was doing in all this. Funny enough, I have deadheaded lots of pumps working on industrial equipment in my career and never broke anything. The sound of the poppet valve under full relief was always shocking, kind of gave me the jitters for a while, but I never managed to destroy anything. Take care, welcome to tractors and enjoy your machine.
Dan

 

[TheSheriff]

Thanks Rich,

That's kinda what I was thinking for lack of a better explanation. But that just doesn't seem right since it would imply I had a bit of good luck... not use to that!

I believe I read in situations like this, hyd oil could be entering the engine block. Both my engine and hyd oil appear normal and are at the correct levels. Wonder if I should have any concerns with the engine after stopping so suddenly? Though, everything still seems fine after 40 minutes of operation.

Brad

 

[TheSheriff]

Thanks for the responses, I feel better now. I will certainly keep an eye on the engine oil level.

Transit, If it were leaking around the shaft, how long would you expect it to take to notice an increase in oil level? I mean would this be after minutes? or will I not know if I'm "outta the woods" for weeks? Brad

 

[wdchyd]

Sheriff,

Glad it didn't happen like most stories such as this...."Bang....LEEAAAKKKK"....don't forget, "If it happened once, it'll potenially happen twice"......don't let that come true....

If it was mine and there is no relief valve built in to the pump, then I'd add one inline between the pump and QD...... https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-1556&catname=.....set it just above your highest found pressure on your machine and run an extra hose to a tee back to the reservoir.....

An extra relief valve , fittings and hose is usually cheaper and less aggravation than new pump........:2cents:

 

[Dan W]

Brad,
Most hydraulic pumps have what is known as double seal arrangements on the input shaft, one to keep hydraulic oil in, and one to keep engine oil out. I have seen engines doing what is called making oil, due to excessively worn pump shafts and seals, but to blow a front seal in one shot is somewhat rare. Rest easy my friend, check your engine oil daily as you would normally anyway and you will be fine my 2 cents worth
Dan

 

[Transit]

Sheriff, when a pump seal goes, its fast. Keep an eye on the oil level daily until your comfortable all is well.
If it has not been leaking all this while, your in the clear. Look into a relief valve ASAP.

 

[kennyd]

I think you are perfectly fine. The engine quit which is a good thing, but if all worked well after re-start, you are good to work the machine. You have to wonder what the pump pressure relief valve was doing in all this. Funny enough, I have deadheaded lots of pumps working on industrial equipment in my career and never broke anything. The sound of the poppet valve under full relief was always shocking, kind of gave me the jitters for a while, but I never managed to destroy anything. Take care, welcome to tractors and enjoy your machine.
Dan

Brad,
Most hydraulic pumps have what is known as double seal arrangements on the input shaft, one to keep hydraulic oil in, and one to keep engine oil out. I have seen engines doing what is called making oil, due to excessively worn pump shafts and seals, but to blow a front seal in one shot is somewhat rare. Rest easy my friend, check your engine oil daily as you would normally anyway and you will be fine my 2 cents worth
Dan

You are giving these Chinese pumps WAY to much credit, there are PLENTY of stories about blown pumps on these tractors

 

[wdchyd]

You are giving these Chinese pumps WAY to much credit, there are PLENTY of stories about blown pumps on these tractors

It's probably cuz the volumetric efficiency has been compromised internally in pump and it won't develop "Critical Mass...BOOM"......or the HP of the engine has less power than the Hydraulic System.... (HP= (GPM x PSI)/ 1714 x efficiency).....

 

[Bob Rooks]

WHEW! I think you dodged that bullet:thumbsup:
You may want to perform an engine oil analysis if you have doubts, and definitely at the next oil change.

 

[TheSheriff]

Thanks for all the help.... 2 more hours and still running like a champ!

Bob Rooks; You said it!

 

[Nuno]

You are giving these Chinese pumps WAY to much credit, there are PLENTY of stories about blown pumps on these tractors

jep, and i can tell a few stories about blown pumps and broken shafts

broken shaft after 6 hours


burst pump housing after 3 min


no problems more since i install a PRV and replace all chinese QDs.
don't know if the 2010 Jinma 284 have a PRV installed, if not i would do it.

 

[wdchyd]

Sheriff,

Glad it didn't happen like most stories such as this...."Bang....LEEAAAKKKK"....don't forget, "If it happened once, it'll potenially happen twice"......don't let that come true....

If it was mine and there is no relief valve built in to the pump, then I'd add one inline between the pump and QD...... https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-1556&catname=.....set it just above your highest found pressure on your machine and run an extra hose to a tee back to the reservoir.....

An extra relief valve , fittings and hose is usually cheaper and less aggravation than new pump........:2cents:

Nuno,

My point exactly......:thumbsup:

 

[TheSheriff]

Nuno; Those are impressive pics. Hard to believe that little shaft could survive stopping my engine dead in it's tracks at 1700 RPM!

With 5 hours since the "Incident" and no issues or sign of hyd fluid in the engine oil, I must have got a good pump or was just **** lucky.

And I'm guessing the 2010 284 does not have a factory PRV, or the deadhead would not have stalled the engine. I do know my engine has more than enough power.... and I've worked it pretty hard! Still amazes me what this tractor can do with 8hp less than my 4WD quad. I understand why, but still find it amazing. Brad

 

[Nuno]

With 5 hours since the "Incident" and no issues or sign of hyd fluid in the engine oil, I must have got a good pump or was just **** lucky.

Brad, i think it was just Luck.
my Pump with the burst housing have also stalled my engine and crack exactly at the same moment as the engine stops.
i have a Pressure Gauge installed and when the Hydraulic System Pressure goes up to 160 bar/2320 PSI, i can see that this make the Engine RPM goes down for about 200 - 300 rpm when it runs at idle.
You can imagine how much Pressure the Pump will build until the Engine stops

And I'm guessing the 2010 284 does not have a factory PRV, or the deadhead would not have stalled the engine. I do know my engine has more than enough power.... and I've worked it pretty hard! Still amazes me what this tractor can do with 8hp less than my 4WD quad. I understand why, but still find it amazing. Brad

my 244E Jinma have only 24HP and it its more than enough power for the jobs i have to do with it and also to kill Hydraulic Pumps:laughing:

 

[Diamondpilot]

Still amazes me what this tractor can do with 8hp less than my 4WD quad. I understand why, but still find it amazing. Brad

I amazed my Brother-N-Law when I could pull shrubs out with my Jinma 284 that his 07 F-150 with 300HP could not touch. Lowe grears, weight box, loaded rears, diff lock, ect get work done.

Chris

 

[TheSheriff]

I amazed my Brother-N-Law when I could pull shrubs out with my Jinma 284 that his 07 F-150 with 300HP could not touch. Lowe grears, weight box, loaded rears, diff lock, ect get work done.

Chris

Absolutely.

I was amazed at the difference pushing the FEL into dirt piles (2WD) after mounting the BH. With the extra weight, it had the perceived momentum of a tank! At that moment I thought, "I'm gonna break this thing"! I decided to park the tractor until I fabbed a FEL/BH frame mount.
Brad