Dealer Dealer sold me a used 2012 BX25 but advertised it as a used BX25D...

[My Hoe]

I have followed and read the posts in this thread since the beginning and am all confused. Is a BX25 a BX25 or something I do not understand? Since I'm considering a BX25, should I still consider one or is there another number I should look into? Can anyone summarize all this?

Kubota refreshed their BX series recently. They went from the 60 series to the 70 series. For example, the BX 2360 is now the BX 2370. In doing so they renamed the BX25 into the BX25D. There are a half dozen or more changes such as different seat and change in steering wheel but the most significant is the change in placement of the hydro pedals. There is no difference in horsepower or lift capacity so both the BX25 and BX25D will perform quite similarly. If the new features are important to you then seek out a BX25D. If not, a BX25 will do nicely. Whatever you do, make sure you are getting what was advertised, the new numbering system from Kubota has created confusion. Don't expect a used tractor salesman to know the differences unless it is a Kubota dealer.
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I have two points on the bolded text, above.

1. I am not aware of a change in the hydro pedals (so please educate me) but Kubota DID put the brake on the LEFT side. I think this is a first for ALL of Kubota's SCUTS and CUTS, which (I believe) historically all had the brakes on the right side, jammed in behind and above the hydro pedals. However (to my knowledge), only the B-series and larger have split brakes--not the SCUTS. So, the B's have split brakes, but without the (sometimes not-available and usually-only-optional "cruise control" on the B-series), split brakes seem largely useless, as you can't keep one foot on the hydro pedal AND switch between Left and Right brakes--unless your B-series (and larger) has the optional cruise control. Therefore, even though the new "BX25d-D" does have cruise control (per an early, dealer promo piece, seen here: Kubota Dealer Meeting 2012 - New BX1870 BX2370 BX2670 & BX25D) since I do NOT believe ANY BX has "split brakes," unlike the larger B-series, I can't see why (finally!) moving the brake pedal to the left is any big advantage. Because, without split brakes, which can be used to steer from the rear wheels (used in bottom-plowing, for example) I don't know why it would matter which side the brake pedal is on, as most hydro owners (here) say they almost never even touch the brake--they just let go of the hydro pedal. So the new brake location seems like it's a NOT a big deal, unlike this:

The NEW BX25D (with the "D" not only on the metal data tag, down on the frame, but also--and for the first time--in a decal "call out" on the FEL arms) also has:


2. A QUICK ATTACH for the FEL!
This is a big deal (for me) even though it is still just a proprietary Quick Attach, as opposed to an SSQA-type or "universal" QA.

Why is this a big deal?

Because, to buy an aftermarket QA is $825. from ATI. To get the original bucket's ears "shaved" off and the female QA plate attached is $200.-300., I'm told, from a fab shop. Adding in the shipping, and repainting of the bucket (after the QA surgery) and you're up about $1,200. (plus tax). (Not to mention that, AFAIK, no aftermarket mfr. even offers a SCUT-sized SSQA, meaning the [roughly] B-sized SSQA from ATI is unnecessarily-heavy, and would eat [unnecessarily-deeply] into the already-limited lifting ability of the BX25D's FEL).

So the QA, IMHO, is the single, biggest change in the two BX25's.

If I had to mention the second most significant change, for me, it would be that the hoe now has the thumb bosses built into the dipperstick, for positive location of a thumb (which I believe Kubota also offers, for the first time, in their SCUT). This is a big deal, as I am not a fan of the "clamp on" style of aftermarket thumbs, as I've read they tend to slip. Just my opinion--YMMV.

On the OP's original question: if I were in the SCUT market (as I briefly was, twice) I'm sorry, but there's NO WAY I could have missed the presence or absence of a Quick Attach, as I would want to use the forks and bucket, interchangeably, frequently. Again, to me, that's the single, biggest improvement in the "BX25d-D".

Therefore, if the OP really wanted that, he should have looked for it. Which is not to say that he shouldn't at least attempt to back out of this deal, if it's not for him. IMHO, he'd do well to do so, as others have said the deal he got was only so-so (and others have said he did well).

It can't hurt to ask to be let out of the deal, but I would never expect the dealer to kick back some money (if he wanted to keep the tractor), when they can expect to get their full price from the next customer who walks in. Either get out while you still can, for no loss (other than transportation, time and anxiety) or live with it. Personally, I'd want out, and go buy a new one, for "Zero/Zero + Warranty," as opposed to this machine.

For me, the most amazing thing about this 12+-page thread is that almost no one (with one, other exception) seems to feel that absence of the QA on the FEL is a big deal. For me, again, the ability to switch from bucket to forks, in mere minutes, without greasy aggravation, makes this handly, little machine more than TWICE as handy. I can't help but see it as a built-in, $1,200.+ option.

In fact, the new QA feature almost swayed me to buy a new "BX25d-D". But I need the ground clearance of a B, and like some of the B's other features more than the BX's. But the convenience of having the QA right there, from Day 1, with no fab shop hassles (as I don't trust my welding "skills" to that extent) is a big deal, IMO. (I do believe Kubota now offers some B's with an optional SSQA, but I'm in the used market, for different reasons).

 

[sixdogs]

MyHoe....Excellent research and reporting. Thank you.

 

[Scooby074]

The reason the QA ia NOT a big deal on the OP's tractor, is because the QA is OPTIONAL!!! The 'D" DOES NOT come with the QA out of the box, so no matter which "D" you choose, youre still out of pocket for a QA.

The other issue regarding the QA is there is no reason that the D QA can only be used on the "D" as opposed to the "d". Now, Kubota says it can only be used on the 'D" however the dealer could not explain why, after talking to several people at two dealerships.

The booms on both the D and the d are the EXACT same after SN38394! PN 7J62158010 As are all 3 hydraulic cylinders, 7J61263010 and 7J61264013 respectively. Pins are the same. Even the loader arm quick attach is the same. The only difference I can find between a LA240 and a LA240A is the mount where it attaches to the tractor, they have a different PN, but from appearances are the same.

At the end of the day, Id have NO issues running the QA on either a "d" or a "D", regardless of what Kubota says. I mean, its not like Kubota could use the lack of "official" approval of the QA on the "d" to try and get people to trade up to a "D"

Besides that, there are several QA's made by other than Kubota being used on the BX for many years, with no reported issues. This leads me to believe that Kubota's argument that a QA can ONLY be used on a D is BS.

 

[batwing]

I really feel for the Op and hope he goes and talks to the salesman who ignored his question on the loader, is it his fault probably but I can see me getting all excited and doing something like that. It is a terrible way for a tractor manufacturer to label a tractor that sounds like it has changed enough to warrant better clarification.
Ron

 

[Code54]

After reading the thread on and off for days I figure it this way. The plate says D, the dealer see it says BX25D, he is going to call it a BX25D. Right or wrong it is labeled as that. I been around Kubota's for a good while now and if I didn't own one I would of thought a BX25D is a BX25D, the JD dealer is a JD dealer and may well not have the expertise on Kubota's.
If I really want a certain model or features I check and make sure they are on the one I am buying. When I bought mine I walked over and looked it over, seen where the brake was, noticed the decals saying BX25D, and the thumb attachment point. I then know it was correct and finished the transaction. When there is such subtle changes I personally believe the buyer is responsible and and should not rely on another person or business to make sure their purchase is correct. I sort of think it is my money, so I am responsible. I personally don't believe there is a fraud on the dealers part as the OFFICIAL plate from Kubota says BX25D and if they can't believe that what can they believe?

 

[My Hoe]

My Hoe....Excellent research and reporting. Thank you.

sixdogs,

Thank you for your kind words, but I think the "research and reporting" award should go to Scooby074, as he's the man with the relevant Part Numbers and Serial Numbers. Now, I do differ with one part of his analysis, but I'll address that, below. But thanks again, sixdogs. :thumbsup:

The reason the QA ia NOT a big deal on the OP's tractor, is because the QA is OPTIONAL!!! The 'D" DOES NOT come with the QA out of the box, so no matter which "D" you choose, youre still out of pocket for a QA.

The other issue regarding the QA is there is no reason that the D QA can only be used on the "D" as opposed to the "d". Now, Kubota says it can only be used on the 'D" however the dealer could not explain why, after talking to several people at two dealerships.

The booms on both the D and the d are the EXACT same after SN38394! PN 7J62158010 As are all 3 hydraulic cylinders, 7J61263010 and 7J61264013 respectively. Pins are the same. Even the loader arm quick attach is the same. The only difference I can find between a LA240 and a LA240A is the mount where it attaches to the tractor, they have a different PN, but from appearances are the same.

At the end of the day, Id have NO issues running the QA on either a "d" or a "D", regardless of what Kubota says. I mean, its not like Kubota could use the lack of "official" approval of the QA on the "d" to try and get people to trade up to a "D"

Besides that, there are several QA's made by other than Kubota being used on the BX for many years, with no reported issues. This leads me to believe that Kubota's argument that a QA can ONLY be used on a D is BS.

Scooby074,

First, I agree with you: after even the dealers can't seem to come up with a reason not to use the QA on the 240 FEL (as opposed to the 240A), and no visible differences exist, I'd probably use it too. And kudos to you, for being the first (that I've seen) to actually come up with ANY documentable difference in the two models, re: the QA, i.e., the mount where the FEL attaches.

However, I rather discount this: "The 'D" DOES NOT come with the QA out of the box, so no matter which "D" you choose, youre still out of pocket for a QA."

Yes, it's an option, but it costs you a paltry $279. instead of my (back-of-the-napkin) estimate of $1,200.+, to go the SSQA route. But, yes, the OP could simply pay $279. and add the QA to his "old" BX25d-D. I get your point. Perhaps that's why no one else thinks the absence of the QA is a big deal, either.

And other than Jerry's very cool QA system, I wasn't aware of another, aftermarket QA solution. Just curious of what else might be out there, if you have that info available?

Still, were it me, the Cruise Control, the ready-to-go thumb mounts, the better seat, the "Series Hydraulic Circuits - allow use of all loader/backhoe functions at the same time", the foldable ROPS, etc... would all have me trying to (gently) unwind the OP's deal, and go get a new one. But to each his own.

 

[rbarker]

1. I am not aware of a change in the hydro pedals (so please educate me) but Kubota DID put the brake on the LEFT side.

Sorry, temporary memory lapse. I was intending to refer to the movement of the BRAKE pedal.

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[sixdogs]

My Hoe--you are correct...thank you.

Scooby gets double kudos.

 

[bcp]

Scooby gets double kudos.

 

[chvfrk98]

MyHoe.... I completely agree and we are on the exact same page as to how this should or could have been handled. It's a mistake on everyones part and not worth any money. OP should be able to get a refund if so desired. I would love a quick detatch option... Thinking of going that way one day. NEED FORKS! Ones that really work, not clamp ons.